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General question on Linux

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General question on Linux

I Use Linux most of the time but wondered why some of the free software that's available comes in files with .tz or similar which need to be assembled or require different packages, in short what I am asking is windows files come in a .exe which follow a simple installation procedure why can Linux not do the same ?
I am aware of the vast range of packages available in the software manager that install in a simple way along with other stuff that just requires a few lines of sudo apt-get, so why should other stuff be so difficult (at least to me)
As you have guessed my knowledge of Linux is about nil but I was just curious about this point. Smiley
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Re: General question on Linux

The main reason is that Linux comes in MANY flavours.
Debian based, Red Hat based, KDE. Gnome, 32bit/64bit etc etc.
For the ones you can install by apt-get they have been compiled by the maintainer and made available in that format.
If you want to distribute a file to all then a source package is the easiest way. Then the end user (YOU/ME) can just compile it themselves.
The source packages are also a LOT smaller than the binary packages.
Sometimes it can be a right PITA to get something to compile, but 90%+ of the time it is a simple three step process (4 if you include extracting it) .configure/make/sudo make install.
Usually they will tell you what additional packages are needed to be installed before you build it, but otherwise the .configure will tell you what is missing.
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Re: General question on Linux

Is it really simple or just what you're used to?
I think the Windows system of downloading and running an exe to install something is a terrible system. Besides not reading the license agreement and unticking the option to install something extra, you then have very little idea of what the setup exe is going to do to your system - it could do pretty much anything. You just have to hope the installer does a reasonably tidy job. Obviously it will need to install a background service, tray icon, it's own auto updater and some quick starter program.
Perhaps you are running to wrong distribution if it doesn't have what you want available via the package manager.
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Re: General question on Linux

Quote from: ejs

I think the Windows system of downloading and running an exe to install something is a terrible system. Besides not reading the license agreement and unticking the option to install something extra, you then have very little idea of what the setup exe is going to do to your system - it could do pretty much anything. You just have to hope the installer does a reasonably tidy job. Obviously it will need to install a background service, tray icon, it's own auto updater and some quick starter program.

So, where does Linux differ? Once you have downloaded it and spent hours trying to figure out why the prog that is "so simple to use and install". isn`t working...  there is a complicated procedure that the end user has to go through/learn before he can download and install.... with Microsoft compatible programs.... the .exe system "just works"..
Agreed , you ( end user ) does not know what it is doing to the system... and I bet 90 % of Linux users could not explain what happens in their system when they install a program...
do they, and do Microsoft users, really care? so long as it works? No... only the "Geeks" want to know... others.... just let it install, and get on using it... as it was designed to do.....
This " scaremonger " phraseing ................. "  you then have very little idea of what the setup exe is going to do to your system - it could do pretty much anything. " .............works for Linux as well... so what was the point of putting it into the posting?  not very helpful, or a way of trying to convince someone that Linux is as good as Microsoft, or vice versa.... 
Oh and in answer to your opening question.. "Is it really simple or just what you're used to?"    short answer.... "YES"...  longer version...  "Yes, unlike Linux"...
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Re: General question on Linux

@shutter - I'm not even going to bother to respond to that.
Quote from: gleneagles
what I am asking is windows files come in a .exe which follow a simple installation procedure why can Linux not do the same ?

Linux doesn't do the same because the Windows way is a terrible system and a package manager is far superior.
VileReynard
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Re: General question on Linux

Can you cleanly uninstall an application (including references to shared libraries) by "simply" running an exe?

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Re: General question on Linux

Because you know the truth, when you see it, but try to imply that Linux is Superior, and therefore Linux users are, by default, also superior,.....
Linux is for geeks, who want to remain superior, and look down on other OS`s from a great height, denigrating all those who use Microsoft.
IF .... repeat.... IF.. Linux is so superior, and so "easy to use", then why is it that  Microsoft is shipped with new machines, and is used by 90% more users than Linux in the world?
IF... repeat... IF  Linux is so good, and so easy to use, then surely IT, would be the number one choice for manufacturers and program writers to use...
It is only your opinion, and narrowmindedness, that makes you think, and say, that    "The windows way is a terrible system"... and then go on with your "superior" addition....
To reply to the O.P... the answer is NOT that Windows way is a terrible system... it is ...that... Linux do things differently.... not  as you put it, "superior"... 
If Linux could make their install system "simple" like window, then more people would DEMAND a Linux system on their machines, because more people would be able to use it easily...
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Re: General question on Linux

@ Foxy...

Whatever that is supposed to imply or mean.... I have not had any problems uninstalling many programs over the past 20 years or so... if there are "bits and pieces" left over, they certainly haven`t done any harm to my computer...
I have only had two "bsod`s".. in both cases, I managed to install a new HDD and install the same copy of Windows and then re-installed my favourite programs.... NO problem... You would do the same on a Linux machine... ( or there again, you will come up with some instance of "you don`t get bsod" with linux, )... Without resorting to any forum for instructions.
I also have two HDD`s with Linux Mint on them.... sure, I would love to be able to use Linux.... but it is just so darned difficult to get it working the way I want , without having to ask how to do things on a forum... and then I get the feeling that I am "not welcome", because I don`t understand "the language" or the "protocols"  needed..... so I just gave up...
Command line stuff, to install progs, or make them work, are so "old hat"... that Microsoft does it all in the .exe file...  ( yes, I know some progs in Linux do work straight away... just like..... ... erm... Microsoft  )..
VileReynard
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Re: General question on Linux

I've never booted from a microsoft CD and had networking actually working.
I had to learn about "protocol stacks" and stuff like that.
Plus all that tiring rebooting....

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Re: General question on Linux

If you have never booted from a Microsoft CD then you have no reason to revile the system.  Lips are sealed
PeeGee
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Re: General question on Linux

Quote from: shutter
I also have two HDD`s with Linux Mint on them.... sure, I would love to be able to use Linux.... but it is just so darned difficult to get it working the way I want , without having to ask how to do things on a forum... and then I get the feeling that I am "not welcome", because I don`t understand "the language" or the "protocols"  needed..... so I just gave up...
Command line stuff, to install progs, or make them work, are so "old hat"... that Microsoft does it all in the .exe file...  ( yes, I know some progs in Linux do work straight away... just like..... ... erm... Microsoft  )..

That's Mint (and Ubuntu) for you, trying to give the user a "Microsoft" experience to woo their users - though I still find MS Windows 7 harder* (or is that impossible?) to get working the way I want Shocked Most things seem to be intentionally hidden in MS Windows so that users obey the mantra - "You shouldn't do it that way, you must do it our way" Smiley  Linux distributions generally don't hide facilities and are fairly easy to re-configure but, just like MS Windows, require some effort to gain sufficient understanding. I suspect that many people look at the "extent of the configuration capability" and give up when it can be treated like MS Windows and run with the default settings.
I'm a little surprised about the forum responses - that usually happens when the question is "how do I get <distribution> to work like Windows?" or along similar lines. I find the best way to get Linux to work that way is to install the nVidia drivers for an AMD graphics card - almost guaranteed boot failure (then again, I installed the nVidia drivers from the installation CD of a nVidia based motherboard and that guaranteed a boot failure with XP Roll eyes ).
I use "Command line stuff" quite often to automate tasks in a way that I never could with MS Windows/MSDOS, but find it has no particular benefit for installing programs over the GUI (essentially the same program) unless you wish to optimise or reconfigure the package (how do you do that in MS Windows instead of using "compatibility" mode?).

* I'm new to Windows 7, but am familiar with the multi-user "Unix model" prior versions and the multi-tasking MSDOS front-ends before that.
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Re: General question on Linux

Just built a new (hardware box) system, used Linux Mint to 'prove' the hardware - worked a treat.  Wiped the hard drive and worked through a Gentoo install - all working, then decided to switch from SysVInit to systemd - still working on kernel changes to optimise the new system but basically working with a few issues.  You don't get this much fun with Windows.
Call me 'w23'
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VileReynard
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Re: General question on Linux

It still makes me mad when M$ insist I should store a video in "My Videos" etc
I bet if I took a picture of a small horse, they would insist I store it in
"My Little Pony"...  Angry

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Re: General question on Linux

So, is that "such a big deal"... that Windows stores your pics in "my pics" folder ?  WOW... where else would you want to store them?
Windows has made it easy to down load pics from the camera, by just plugging in a card or lead, and the pics go to the "logical" folder.... "My Pics"...  Whereas it would take a few questions from Linux to make a destination folder to do the same thing.... which is OK for the Geeks, but for everyone else,....... just too much hassle...
You can see how easy it is to use Windows, and how difficult it is doing the same thing with Linux...
If you are so "uptight" and "mad" about the name of the folder you can always change it to whatever you wanted to...... e.g. Bread Locker,  or perhaps you could store them in you (folder) "Garden Shed"...
Ipso Facto,... Linux does it one way, and Microsoft do it another.... For 90% of users Microsoft is the easiest .... When Linux starts to acknowledge that, it brings out MINT  and is trying to make Linux more friendly to the end user, not just the Geeks... It has a long way to go.... but your pics will still be stored in "Garden Shed"  ( aka My Pics ) on your hard drive,.... by your own efforts,
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Re: General question on Linux

If you really want to say some thing the do. Otherwise stop blowing HOT AIR  Crazy
On Linux Mint for MANY MANY years if you plug in a camera then it will open the default app, to import the pics ready to edit using Gimp (already installed) or to view using the default viewer (again already installed by DEFAULT).
Just because you can't get Linux to work like your M$ install is not and will never be Linux's ideal. If you want M$ pay M$ for the privilege of RENTING the s/w.
But this is TOTALLY off topic so please stick to the original topic or retreat to the M$ side.