Degraded service since moving to John Lewis as ISP (Supported by Plusnet of course!)

[#1]

Hello all,

I used to be with Plusnet at my current address and was getting a nice download speed of around 15MB/s which I was happy with.

Just over a year ago, Plusnet decided to increase prices to what I thought was too much. I looked for another ISP and John Lewis were offering a good deal, so I went to them whilst knowing I was really still with Plusnet. Around the same time a storm damaged our drop cable from the street pole to the house and BT came out and replaced it with an identical type - I know because I was talking to the engineer as he was replacing it and being a retired electronics engineer I was interested in what he was doing.

After the changeover of ISP to JL, the speed was slow at around 5MB/s and I raised the issue with JL support. They assured me it would settle down to the same speed as it was with Plusnet after the training period, as nothing had physically changed. Well it never really improved, but we forgot it and just lived with it.

A few months ago I noticed a lot of buffering and lack of response from the router when "Surfing". A speed test using Broadband Speed Checker and the BT Wholesale ones showed speeds of 2 to 3MB/s with ping times of nearly 1 second. I considered these values as not acceptable and contacted JL support to get it sorted and that's where the problems began.

JL say according to their tests the line cannot support the speed I reported I was getting when I was with Plusnet, because the current line properties won't allow it. Funnily enough, there is a comment on the log stating the settings at the exchange were set too high and that's what's been causing some of the problems, so they've reduced the settings to provide a more stable connection!

JL say they cannot take the problem any further and pass it to BT Openreach because there's nothing wrong with the line and it's running at the max speed for the current line conditions! That's where I'm stuck!!

I'm located about 1.5Km from the cabinet and the exchange is shown as 1.9Km, although these may be line-of-sight distances - I'm not sure. The cabinet is shown as FTTP and FTTC enabled and I would like to upgrade to FTTC and according to info I've seen I should get around 15MB/s on fibre, similar to what I was getting with Plusnet originally. However, when doing an actual speed check of the expected speed for FTTC, it shows a max speed of 6MB/s - No different to current service.

How on earth do I get JL/Plusnet to move on this and restore/give me back the service I used to have? BTW, I'm on Unlimited Broadband with JL.

Thanks,

Frank.

Moderator's note by Mike (Mav): Post released from Spam Filter.

Thanks Mike for releasing.

[#2]

@Trident3

As far as I'm aware JL customers are not supported through these fora.

[#3]

Moderator's note:

Thread moved from Broadband to Tech Help as it isn't a Plusnet issue.

[#4]

@Trident3

Welcome to the Plusnet forum. I fear that JL broadband is run as a separate organisation so it's unlikely that you will get help from Plusnet staffers. The last time I looked JL did not have a forum, which is why I did not move to them. I also learnt that it's worth negotiating with Plusnet on contract expiry to get a better deal in exchange for a new contract.

As I see it you need to go back to JL and make a nuisance of yourself there. If you want faster speed then consider FTTP if it's available. Make sure that the offering is WBC FTTP. FTTP on Demand is not appropriate as installation will cost thousands. I assume that you will need to find another ISP.

For the record are your abysmal speeds confirmed here  https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/?

[#5]

Thanks Baldrick1 for your comments.

When I phoned the JL CSC the chap I spoke to admitted he worked for Plusnet and also dealt with JL enquiries, but of course he could only really help with the JL side of things (or not as it happens).

I think you're right and I need to make a nuisance of myself - It's the squeaky bearing that gets the oil!!

I collared a BT Openreach engineer this morning who just happened to be working up a pole a couple of hundred yards along the road to pick his brains and it proved quite useful. I asked him about the problem and he suggested it may have been caused by the fact that when I was with Plusnet originally, I was connected to the fibre port in the cabinet in error and when my drop-wire was replaced and the engineer checked the line and realised I was on the fibre port, he moved it to the copper connection back to the exchange. The speed I'm getting is probably about right for copper to the exchange which is 2km ish as the electrons fly. He suggested I ask JL what connection I am on at the cabinet and that might shed some light on it. He also suggested I change to FTTC as they would be pushed into improving my speed, otherwise there's no point in changing. I note your suggestion about FTTP and I'm definitely considering going back to Plusnet, but I'll have to check the costs for that and whether it's worth it over FTTC.

Thanks,

Frank.

[#6]

If you look at this chart you indicates that youshould be getting 15Mbps on ADSL at 2km on a good line  I would also question whether you were previously on fibre. Plusnet ADSL routers (Hub  Zero and the earlier Thomson models) do not work on VDSL. Also I would expect you to have been seeing upstream speeds greater than 1Mbps on fibre, were you? https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/2012/graph-ADSL-speed-versus-distance

Plusnet do not do FTTP, it's likely to be relatively expensive.

Fot the record, when with Plusnet were you in a high cost area? I ask because very recently there has been a reclassification that could impact your decision, see here https://community.plus.net/t5/Everything-else/New-Market-Area-Classifications-Check-if-you-re-now-in...

[#7]

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@Baldrick1 wrote:

Plusnet do not do FTTP, it's likely to be relatively expensive.

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Not at present (since the FTTP trial closed to new applicants on 31/7/18 ), but it has been intimated that they'll be announcing (hopefully in the not too distant future) a range of FTTP options.

It might be a good idea to see a screenshot from @Trident3 of his DSLchecker results (minus phone number of course) to ascertain whether native FTTP is actually available or whether he's seeing FTTPoD as you suggested in Post #4 earlier.

[#8]

If I had known about the FTTP trial I would have applied, but I missed it. I was on the trial in Milton Keynes a few years ago and FTTP was great at 100MB/s. After the trial was complete, we were allowed to keep the fibre service at the price of ADSL as a thanks for taking part.

I spoke to JL tonight after debating what to do and looking at the various options and the upshot is that JL are not prepared to do anything to sort it out and the only way I can get any sort of speed increase is to go to FTTC. JL confirmed I am currently on copper to the exchange. I note your comment Baldrick1 about FTTP. According to the checker, it's not native, it's on demand and I'm not that well off or in need of it! Also thanks for the info re the expected rate vs distance and that roughly supports the speed I used to get.

I think I'm going to go back to Plusnet with FTTC, as it will cost less than changing to the same product with JL and only 29p more than I'm currently paying to JL. By effectively moving the source from the exchange to the cabinet, I should see an increase in speed although it's not guaranteed of course. Interestingly, the Plusnet rep I spoke to tonight went back through my historical records and couldn't find anything showing a rate above about 8ish MB/s. I will get a new router from Plusnet, so that should be fully compatible with the re-jigged service and give the best rate possible. I'll see how it goes and maybe I'll get a reasonable speed increase.

[#9]

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@Trident3 wrote:

If I had known about the FTTP trial I would have applied, but I missed it.

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Unfortunately the FTTP trial was only available to those who could get FTTP not FTTPoD (as per the DSLchecker info for your line/premises), so as you've said yours was showing FTTPoD that would have excluded you anyway. 

Hopefully you'll have good luck if you decide to change to PN VDSL2 and see a worthwhile speed increase.

[#10]

Hi All,

Well since I last posted I have moved back to Plusnet and gone to FTTC with the expectation of getting a reasonable speed increase, but it hasn't happened. Typically I'm getting around 4Mb down and about 1Mb up which is not much different to pre-FTTC.

Investigation shows (https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm for which I'm sure the data comes from an Openreach database at some point) the distance from the exchange to my home is approx 1.5km, although measuring the distance on Google Maps shows 1.5km from the cabinet line-of-sight bearing in mind the fibre-to-copper bridge is now in the cabinet (or am I mistaken?).

Anyway, given that my speed appears low for the distance, what speed should I reasonably expect and what do learned members suggest I do to elicit an improvement?

Frank.

[#11]

@Trident3

When you joined Plusnet, they should have sent you an email detailing the speeds you could expect.

However you can check for yourself the speed range for your line at https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.welcome

[#12]

Yes I did get an estimate of between 2.5 and 6Mb, but that's no different to what I was getting from JL just before changing to FTTP with Plusnet.

I have just found my initial welcome email from JL when I changed to them from Plusnet and it says and I quote:

Your order
- Unlimited   - Talk Anytime   - Monthly line rental   - 12 month contract   - Wireless router
Your broadband speed should be between 11.5Mb and 18Mb. This is an estimate based on data provided by our supplier. Your speed will vary but should be within that range - find out why your speed can vary.

I mentioned in one of my earlier posts that I seemed to remember getting  speeds of around 15Mb just before leaving Plusnet and joining JL, but the above corroborates my comment. The speed drop coincided with the replacement of my drop-cable from the post to house.

There is clearly something wrong, so where do I go from here?

[#13]

The deficiency of the linechecker is that it gives a speed estimate based on the actual condition of the line as it stands, not what it should or could be if properly connected and that's where I think my problem lies.

[#14]

Always a good idea to do your own research on Google sites such as Uswitch...

https://www.uswitch.com/broadband/guides/broadband_speeds/

enter your postcode in the box halfway down on the right of the page, and see what is "on offer"... it does give some speed information depending on  what type of BB you want... and the estimated/average speed

As an example,... for my post code, on PN ( which I am ) std broadband... speed is advertised as 10mb... but my daily speed is only just under 6mb..... 

That`s fast enough for me,...as I don`t do gaming or download films. ... PN has been generally Rock Solid connection wises for the past 10 years, so pretty happy with it .

not worth messing about with it, to save a few pounds over the year.... and then having the hassle of switching back again when that deal is done ....

[#15]

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@Trident3 wrote:

There is clearly something wrong, so where do I go from here?

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Start with the Fibre self help guide which includes the link to log a fault.

The guide is at https://community.plus.net/t5/Library/Broadband-Faults-Guide-FTTC/ba-p/1322788