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Bye bye spam!

Jake
Grafter
Posts: 37
Thanks: 1
Registered: ‎05-06-2008

Bye bye spam!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7477899.stm
It'll certainly reduce the amount of calls ISP's have to deal with any save everyone a lot of time everywhere. Hurrah
10 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 14,469
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Bye bye spam!

Don't get your hopes up... From the same article:
Quote
Even if the guidelines are taking up by a majority of ISPs, experts admit it is unlikely that people will see a drastic reduction in spam any time soon.

Much of the spam originates from outside the UK (China, Russia etc) so this initiative is unlikely to have any affect on spam, especially when you consider many ISPs already have spam filtering in place.
Finally blocking port 25 can have serious implications for businesses as many use their own email systems. Having to route all email via the ISPs mail system means that could be overloaded if the ISP has not invested in the necessary additional equipment to handle the extra load.
This is not the solution to spam that you think it is.
deadkenny
Grafter
Posts: 232
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎13-09-2007

Re: Bye bye spam!

Blocking port 25 isn't going to make that much of a difference. An infected PC only needs to hijack your normal mail software (in vast majority of cases it's going to be Outlook Express or Outlook), and thus be sending via the ISP's approved mail server.
Given the source of the spam, are the originating ISPs really going to sign up to this anyway? UK ISPs can do this but the majority of spam doesn't come from the UK.
When sending via the ISP's server, I think generally most ISPs won't block outbound spam, and personally I don't believe they should be blocking outbound mail as false positives can result in genuine mail going into a black hole rather than a junk folder. So all that spam will still get through.
The real concern for many of us though is those of us who run a mail server. Most of us know what we're doing and may even have much tighter spam controls than the ISP's server, and there's a big benefit when you have multiple domains and want all your mail stored locally in an Exchange kind of way, that you can access via secure connections around the world via webmail and secured IMAP to mobile devices, and not suffer from ISP server downtime or have to use possibly insecure connections to their webmail (depending on the ISP).
Myself I run one because I used to be with NTL and their mail servers sucked big time. When I moved to Plus, their problems in the past didn't inspire me with confidence to use theirs, so I kept running mine. If inbound port 25 gets blocked I'd be likely to look for a decent host service mail server that I can suck the mail from to mine, but being not the ISP's server would outbound to them also be blocked?
What's needed is an authenticated system where mail servers use secure connections to one another with some kind of trust relationship. I'd be happy to get a SSL cert and register my mail server with an authority to allow me to keep using it with no need to change things regardless of ISP I'm with.
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,576
Thanks: 3
Registered: ‎13-04-2007

Re: Bye bye spam!

We could reduce 50% if servers dont bounce emails back someone spams using your email address and what happens you get hundreds of email sent back to you as they have bounced or been rejected. In the past I have received 1000 bounced emails per day when someone spamed using my domian which is just a waste.
Who thought it was a good idea to send emails back wants shooting
pd
Grafter
Posts: 235
Registered: ‎09-05-2008

Re: Bye bye spam!

Things may have changed now but in the past I think some ISPs / Domain hosts were too lax about security. 
I had to give up one domain which became so heavily spam-ridden it was impossible to keep on top of it.  It too was being being used as a 'from' address by the spammers and I had to block the six or so mail-daemon addresses my host used for returning bounces. 
I also had a private mail box with the same host the address of which was never made public.  I used to forward mail from my domains to the box and just make the one pick up from the box but it too got spammed to the tune of 5 or 600 hundred a day which makes me think that their system had been hacked though they strongly refuted it.
MrToast
Grafter
Posts: 550
Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: Bye bye spam!

Quote from: Peter
Much of the spam originates from outside the UK (China, Russia etc) so this initiative is unlikely to have any affect on spam....

Why? China and Russia have larger networks. Why cant Chinese or Russian ISP's adopt good practice too?

Quote from: Peter
Finally blocking port 25 can have serious implications for businesses as many use their own email systems.

This proposal is aimed at the default setup for the millions of ordinary users. Those who have a need and the expertise to run their own relay will be able to do so
MrToast
Grafter
Posts: 550
Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: Bye bye spam!

Quote from: deadkenny
Blocking port 25 isn't going to make that much of a difference. An infected PC only needs to hijack your normal mail software (in vast majority of cases it's going to be Outlook Express or Outlook), and thus be sending via the ISP's approved mail server.

Yes... but ISP's monitor thier servers for suspicious activity. You have to if you are responsible for it and don't want to get blocked, so blocking your business. Many, such as PN, take steps to limit the volume of outgoing email from a connection by slowing the messages (tarpitting)
This isn't going to stop SPAM. Just make it less productive and therefore less profitable than it otherwise would be.... If it doesn't make money it wouldn't happen.
deadkenny
Grafter
Posts: 232
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎13-09-2007

Re: Bye bye spam!

Quote from: MrToast
This isn't going to stop SPAM. Just make it less productive and therefore less profitable than it otherwise would be.... If it doesn't make money it wouldn't happen.

I should think the return they get on spam is incredibly small. Send a million spams and probably only a dozen or so gullable soul actually pays something. In legit advertising / marketing this kind of approach would be dropped immediately, but spammers still continue. Maybe it's because their efforts are relatively free, or more likely they're the kind of suckers who believe in things like multi-level marketing. They fall for promises made elsewhere and set up spam bots thinking they'll make their millions. They never do. Problem really is it's just snowballed out of control. Making it less productive likely makes no difference at all and it would continue even if they make no money at all from it.
I still believe the solution is an authenticated & verified mail system. Anyone who signs up gets their mail delivered, those who don't, don't. Spams can then go into the black hole of unverified mail systems that few would really be happy to use until it dies. The problem is likely the countries and companies with better infrastructures and more money will sign up first whilst the rest of the world is left behind.
VileReynard
All Star
Posts: 11,175
Thanks: 303
Fixes: 11
Registered: ‎01-09-2007

Re: Bye bye spam!

A lot of spam is UCE - Unwanted Commercial Email.
How do you stop that?

jmd
Grafter
Posts: 2,933
Thanks: 2
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: Bye bye spam!

Having seen today a friend's inbox [she uses Tiscali via a dongle from 3] I am glad I use Plusnet Smiley - she had hundreds of spam.  There does not seem to be any way of getting Tiscali to filter it unles she pays more to them! 
So all ISPs here do not seem to help now.
MrToast
Grafter
Posts: 550
Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: Bye bye spam!

What is PN's take on the proposal to block port 25 outgoing traffic and to communidate dynamic IP space?