Unresolved support ticket open for more than six months - is this a record?

[#1]

Thanks, Jack - hope you've finally resolved your line problems as well.
I'm still waiting for PN to reset the IP profile, so I can't be sure yet that the problem has finally gone away (download speed is still around 1900kbps) - but the DMT graphs are still looking encouraging.

[#2]

Don't forget to ask for the Target SNRM to be reduced as well!

[#3]

Quote from: Catweazle

but the DMT graphs are still looking encouraging.

The error figures certainly are. 114 RScorr is the only thing that went wrong, and they got corrected.
It should cope well with the SNRM being turned down.
Comparing the differences between the graphs, you can see that the yellow bars don't seem to change at all.
The blue bars alter slightly, so there's a little bit-swapping going on.
Definitely looking good 

[#4]

I hope the connection is still working reliably for you and continues to do so.
It sounds like you were lucky you weren't at home the other day, otherwise the engineer might have just sat in your house for 2 hours with his laptop! It might only be because he was outside and couldn't come in that he wandered down the street and found the problem!
In terms of future learning & diagnostics, I'd be interested to know if you are still getting the radio noise in the bathroom (and elsewhere), on the various frequencies since the sparkie's visit... and since the line was swapped.
Mike

[#5]

Thanks, Mike, It's still looking good - PN bumped the profile up to 5500kbps and I'm now getting download speeds consistently in the 5000-5200kbps range, so I'm happy 
Sync rate is still 6464kbps and the line is looking very stable now. SNRM is 15Db but PN support have recommended we don't tinker with target SNRM for a while as they'd like to monitor the performance before deciding on further tuning options. I don't mind waiting as 5000kbps is about 40-50 times faster than the speed I was getting earlier this week    It's also a big improvement over the line performance I was seeing before I raised the support ticket last June (around 3000kbps download speed was typical at that time).

Quote from: xpcomputers

It sounds like you were lucky you weren't at home the other day, otherwise the engineer might have just sat in your house for 2 hours with his laptop!

Yes, that crossed my mind as well - maybe that should be part of the recommended strategy for resolving problems quickly!

Quote from: xpcomputers

In terms of future learning & diagnostics, I'd be interested to know if you are still getting the radio noise in the bathroom (and elsewhere), on the various frequencies since the sparkie's visit... and since the line was swapped.

That's a good idea - here's a summary of the noise frequencies that I found just now (note that the frequencies are approximate - the radio doesn't have a digital frequency display) :-
530kHz - low buzzing sound, with a slightly different tone depending on which power source the aerial is pointing at e.g. router psu is barely perceptible, LCD screen makes a rushing noise as well, pc makes a louder buzzing noise, and a low energy light makes a very loud buzzing sound (but note that low energy bulbs make a lot of noise on most frequencies, but only if the aerial is within a couple of inches of the bulb i.e. it is an extremely localised source of interference)
600 kHz - faint, low buzzing sound, but this doesn't seem to get louder or change tone near any electrical equipment
650kHz - similar to 600kHz, but more rapid buzzing
710kHz - deeper buzzing noise near LCD screen, pc, but not elsewhere in house (except L.E. bulbs, but they generate a different sound)
790kHz - is the so-called "morse code" type noise; this is still louder in the bathroom, but I think this may be because the pc equipment is interfering with the signal in the study i.e. there's more background noise around the pc. If I point the aerial at the NTE5 master socket then the signal gets louder with a sort of rapid "space invaders" sort of shooting sound as well. Maybe I'm picking up signs that we're not alone after all 
800kHz - rapid buzzing sound, localised to pc equipment area
900kHz - loud whining noise, which appears to originate from my HP Deskjet 5150 printer i.e. the tone changes when I switch the printer on or back to standby.
Kitz has an interesting page on ADSL here: http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/adsl_technology.htm and this mentions that ADSL 1 and 2 use frequencies above 4kHz and up to 1100kHz; this page also has some useful stuff on DMT which gave me a bit more of an insight into how DMT Tool works. Most of this is probably not new to many who advise on this forum, but I thought I'd include it in case it helps someone else.
I'll post another update next week sometime to confirm that all's well, but it certainly looks as if BT have cracked the problem this time. In the meantime, I'd like to thank all of you who have taken the time to make suggestions to help track the problem down - it helped immensely to know that I wasn't trying to solve this on my own. I only regret that I didn't raise this on a forum much earlier, but I only did so after experiencing a huge amount of frustration with PN and BT sending me (and themselves) around in ever-decreasing circles - I'll say no more here, other than this discussion thread and the support ticket would make an excellent case study for future training initiatives for both companies.

[#6]

Quote from: Catweazle

I'll say no more here, other than this discussion thread and the support ticket would make an excellent case study for future training initiatives for both companies.

Glad that the problem seems to have been resolved. 
A good suggestion about this being a good case study.
Maybe the CSC guys should point more cutomers with problems to this forum - do they mention it at all ? ? ?

[#7]

Hi Steve,
Well I hope everything is still 100%. Results from your radio reception checks sound about par for the course and no obvious problems. It would be interesting to see the latest DMT snapshot, if only to look at the (non  ) error figures. I noted from the previous snapshot that there were only 114 RS correctable errors in 20hrs, no CRC, ES, HEC, OCD, LCD, SES or bitswap!
But also because

Quote

........ but PN support have recommended we don't tinker with target SNRM for a while as they'd like to monitor the performance before deciding on further tuning options.

whoever said that was just reading from their cribsheet and doesn't understand how ADSL works or didn't stop to look at the history of this problem and the previous/current DMT plots or previous/current errors figures (the latter also obtainable from a line test)

[#8]

Thanks, Chris - all still ok and enjoying the 5000kbps download speed 
I did have one disconnection (on Friday morning) since the last DMT graph was posted but this seems to have been around the time PN support brought the profile into line with BT's settings - not sure why this would cause a disconnect, though. I've attached another DMT snapshot from a couple of minutes ago.

Quote from: Anotherone

whoever said that was just reading from their cribsheet and doesn't understand how ADSL works or didn't stop to look at the history of this problem and the previous/current DMT plots or previous/current errors figures (the latter also obtainable from a line test)

I suspect that they wanted an excuse for not rocking the boat just yet as the support ticket is getting perilously close to being closed after eight long months! But if lack of ADSL knowledge is the real reason then perhaps that's another item for the next training programme 

Quote from: mal0z

Maybe the CSC guys should point more cutomers with problems to this forum - do they mention it at all ? ? ?

I don't believe this was ever suggested to me, but it would be a very positive move if PN support did recommend sharing problems on specific forums - like I said earlier, it's good to know that you're not on your own. It's great for a sanity check as well, because you do start to count your marbles when BT keep telling you that nothing's wrong with your line 

[#9]

As you say Steve, a profile change shouldn't cause a drop in connection (by which I assume you meant drop in sync), more likely to be some line testing etc (unless the engineer forgot the sticky tape on one of the joints  , let's hope not).
I would be inclined to put a note on the ticket stating that the error rate on the line is insignificant since the pair swap, which you would have expected being only 1.8Km from the exchange, attach the latest DMT snapshot for information and request that an order be placed for the Target SNRM to be reduced to 6dB at the soonest possible opportunity. (After all should there be any problem with errors DLM will up the target if necessary - that's what it's for as much as we curse the way it works!!).

[#10]

I didn't have Routerstats running on Friday when I was away at work, but in the evening  I noticed that the router was connected to a different IP address on the ADSL port, and the WAN uptime allowed me to calculate the time of the last disconnection (about 9:41am if my maths is correct). It still might have been due to BT's sticky-back plastic solution, though...
If all continues well for the next day or so then I'll see if I can get PN support to tweak the target SNRM for me, using a DMT snapshot as evidence that the line is stable.

[#11]

It's still looking good - I asked for the SNRM to be reset yesterday and it's now settled around the 8.8Db mark with a sync rate of 8128kbps 
The IP profile needs to catch up, though - it's still 5500kbps
Latest DMT graph is attached.

[#12]

Your SNRM will probably stay around that level, which is good, as you're at the maximum speed with plenty of "headroom" left.
So it should stay stable now 

[#13]

Excellent-looking graphs, very good error figures, and what looks to be perfect noise & sync values. I'm pleased the end result seems to have turned out so well, but didn't it take some work persuading BT?
Now - is the original pair left to sit idle in the cable, waiting for some unfortunate to come along in the future, requesting a new phone-line? Or do BT do anything to mark them as U/S? You'd imagine they do some level of monitoring of pairs within a bundle, to see if the whole bundle needs swapping-out at some point. Wouldn't you?
Mike

[#14]

I might be doing BT a disservice by saying so, but based on their past performance, I'd say that they just swapped the lines and did nothing more. Each engineer who visited my house had very little idea of what previous engineers had done and I had to brief them each time, so it's highly unlikely any notes about the old line being unsuitable for broadband were passed back to base. Not good performance for a communications company 
I did ask PN to complain to BT about the poor service I received from the engineers, but I suspect there's little that they can do. I don't believe I can complain to BT or Ofcom as I'm not BT's customer in this instance, so I had to complain to the ISP - which I have done, and they have apologised and agreed to provide some compensation (which seems unfair to PN as it was mostly BT's fault). But I'm happy to leave this alone now as I have a better service than when I originally reported the fault in June last year.
And, while I think of it, it rankles a lot that BT calls these people "engineers" - in many countries, engineering is a highly-respected discipline and the law prohibits people from calling themselves "engineers" unless they are professionally qualified in that discipline. But in the UK, anyone can call themselves an engineer and that just devalues the profession, in my opinion. I'd be surprised if my recent visitors had any of these qualifications: http://www.theiet.org/careers/profreg/index.cfm Probably time to start a new thread as this could start to go decidedly off-topic from here 

[#15]

Quote from: Catweazle

And, while I think of it, it rankles a lot that BT calls these people "engineers" - in many countries, engineering is a highly-respected discipline and the law prohibits people from calling themselves "engineers" unless they are professionally qualified in that discipline.

Actually - many of them may be technicians - and have studied at technical colleges for City & Guilds, BTechs  or other qualifications.
Over the years I've know a few - and some were Post office apprentices and had studied.
In truth, probably none are graduates , or chartered engineers. But BT does employ many qualified engineers, some very highly qualified and many work at the research labs at Martlesham, and in other establishments throughout the UK - but none drive Openreach vans to my knowledge.