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Unresolved support ticket open for more than six months - RESOLVED: after 8 mths

Catweazle
Grafter
Posts: 140
Registered: ‎12-01-2009

Re: Unresolved support ticket open for more than six months - is this a record?

Yes, you're right - I didn't do this because the sync rate graph just had a straight line (at 2304kbps), but I should have mentioned this.
The noise margin graph changed again at 21:46 and the periodic peaks disappeared. I also tried a router reboot at 22:27 and this resulted in a slightly higher sync rate of 2784kbps. I've attached some more graphs to illustrate this.
Catweazle
Grafter
Posts: 140
Registered: ‎12-01-2009

Re: Unresolved support ticket open for more than six months - is this a record?

And here's a graph of the current noise margin (sync rate is a flat line graph at 2784kbps for the corresponding period).
HPsauce
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 7,260
Thanks: 325
Fixes: 5
Registered: ‎02-02-2008

Re: Unresolved support ticket open for more than six months - is this a record?

That change shows that, whatever the problem is, it's pretty massive - the pulsing is only a minor fluctuation.
I think this needs some serious investigation and you'll need the help and understanding of PN to get it done. You've got loads of evidence that they (and BT) can't realistically ignore.
Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
Thanks: 457
Fixes: 21
Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Unresolved support ticket open for more than six months - is this a record?

First, I forgot to comment on those noise drops to zero in reply #185, that is likely to be a router polling issue (there was no change in sync) and if so can be ignored.
Secondly, as this pulsing has now disappeared after the re-sync it could just have been some very strange interaction between the line card and the router at that particular sync rate.
A quick recap. I assume the ticket number is still #25488897, I dug up from earlier in the thread.
Now -
Quote from: Catweazle
Quote from: Anotherone
I trust you've updated your ticket with the latest info. It might be worth asking the question, which tie-pairs did they alter, I assume there were no external ones involved?

Yes, I have updated the support ticket and referred back to this discussion (with a suggestion that the info, graphs etc were passed on to BT), but the advice from PN support (Logged Faults team) was just to continue monitoring the connection i.e. as the line had stayed connected for 24 hours. But, after I challenged this, they've now passed the fault back to the escalation team.
I've had no info on what was changed for the tie-pairs, but my impression was that BT could do this mod remotely, whereas the lift and shift would require an engineer to go to the exchange   .............. .................................

What gave you the impression that the tie-pairs could be modified remotely? The last I knew anything about tie-pairs (admittedly not very recently) they were physical wires at the exchange, so unless something dramatic has changed, perhaps someone who knows (from PN? if not anyone else) could educate us all.
The fact that "someone " on the Faults Logged Team suggested you continue monitoring and you had to challenge this, suggests that there is no-one senior enough at PN that has taken ownership of this problem.
Any competent engineer would know that this line should sync at maximum speed (as does your neighbours) and the bits/tone allocation is totally up the creek.
I'm now looking for some more straws to clutch at, to add to the already full bucket.
I think it would be a good idea at this point to yet again try another known good router, with your dangly filter in the test socket and get DMT/RouterStat plots.
Also check/confirm that the piece of cable not to CW1308 between the box under the eaves and the recently fitted RF3 filter has no other mysterious boxes on route, also from your Master Line box back to the RF3.
There is as far as we know -
No evidence that BT have checked every joint at every DP or in every Cab & Pillar between you and the exchange.
(It is conceivable that an RF2 filter may have been fitted on your cable pair somewhere at some time in the past - due to the proximity to the airport etc.)
No confirmation that they've done the lift and shift.
Edit: Forgot to mention - the SNRM immediately after the last resync was ~20dB. Yeh a target of 20dB Roll_eyes
mal0z
Grafter
Posts: 3,486
Registered: ‎02-10-2008

Re: Unresolved support ticket open for more than six months - is this a record?

Quote from: Anotherone
What gave you the impression that the tie-pairs could be modified remotely? The last I knew anything about tie-pairs (admittedly not very recently) they were physical wires at the exchange, so unless something dramatic has changed, perhaps someone who knows (from PN? if not anyone else) could educate us all.

I'm with you Chris, Although it's a few years since I was hands on - the basic physical telephone installation hasn't changed in 30 years, at least since Krone IDC frames came in and when ADSL came in thy just added another IDF/MDF ( distribution frames - sorry ! )
Catweazle
Grafter
Posts: 140
Registered: ‎12-01-2009

Re: Unresolved support ticket open for more than six months - is this a record?

Quote from: Anotherone
What gave you the impression that the tie-pairs could be modified remotely?

PN support  Roll_eyes
Just having a sneak peek at work, but will check back later!
mal0z
Grafter
Posts: 3,486
Registered: ‎02-10-2008

Re: Unresolved support ticket open for more than six months - is this a record?

If I'm understanding this correctly , tie pairs are two pieces of wire ( one blue and one white from memory ? ) , twisted together that are connected to a Insulation Displacement Connector strip, and then are taken across to another IDC strip. This needs a person to physically be in your local exchange to do it .
They provide the link from the multipair cables that come in from your local street cabinet, usually about 20 to 50 pairs per cable.
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp?N=500006+1000392&Ntk=gensearch_001&Ntt=cw1308&Ntx= and the wiring frame on the exchange.

HPsauce
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 7,260
Thanks: 325
Fixes: 5
Registered: ‎02-02-2008

Re: Unresolved support ticket open for more than six months - is this a record?

It's all done remotely with Prince Charles "grey goo" (those lttle nanobots)  Crazy
But for those exchanges that haven't been upgraded, it's still a BT man.  Wink
Catweazle
Grafter
Posts: 140
Registered: ‎12-01-2009

Re: Unresolved support ticket open for more than six months - is this a record?

Quote from: Anotherone
There is as far as we know -
No evidence that BT have checked every joint at every DP or in every Cab & Pillar between you and the exchange.
(It is conceivable that an RF2 filter may have been fitted on your cable pair somewhere at some time in the past - due to the proximity to the airport etc.)
No confirmation that they've done the lift and shift.

Correct. I guess it's possible that BT have done thorough D-side checks, but none of the engineers mentioned this and they certainly didn't do any of this in their allotted 2 hours time for each visit. They seem to rely on the accuracy of the laptop tests i.e. if the tests pass ok then they don't look any further.
PN support (the BOT - DSL Logged Faults team) have stated...
Quote
The line has been given a new CBUK number as a result of the tie pair modify. This often means that your line has now been given a different port. Unfortunately due to this I've had to re-raise the fault to BT as they closed the previous one. We'll keep you updated.
If a new port in not in use, unfortunately BT Wholesale will only perform a lift and shift if the engineer specifically requests this in his notes, and this has not happened as yet

Which is a bit annoying as the last BT engineer said he would be recommending a lift&shift!
I've attached another noise margin graph as the periodic peaks reappeared briefly at about 18:26 (the sync rate stayed constant at 1600kbps so I haven't included this graph). My router indicates the latest disconnection was about 15:40 this afternoon (when I was at work and the pc was switched off).
Just checked the PN line speed page ( https://portal.plus.net/my.html?action=data_transfer_speed ) and this gave the following result:-
Estimated line speed:
0.5 Mbps - Checked on 2009-02-07 01:39:10
Current line speed:
2500
And Mybroadbandspeed is showing a 1237kbps download speed at present.
Quote from: Anotherone
The fact that "someone " on the Faults Logged Team suggested you continue monitoring and you had to challenge this, suggests that there is no-one senior enough at PN that has taken ownership of this problem.

Yes, it's still getting passed around. Perhaps the PN support philiosopy is "a problem shared...".
I'll think about swapping the router again, but it won't be this evening as it's been another long day in the salt mine...
HPsauce
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 7,260
Thanks: 325
Fixes: 5
Registered: ‎02-02-2008

Re: Unresolved support ticket open for more than six months - is this a record?

Very weird that, but the same pattern as before.
Came on for about 15 minutes with a huge level of interference and a steady pulsing pattern every 6 minutes or so.
Any idea what your target SNRM is now?  Cry
Catweazle
Grafter
Posts: 140
Registered: ‎12-01-2009

Re: Unresolved support ticket open for more than six months - is this a record?

I don't know - how would I determine the target SNR margin?
zubel
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,793
Thanks: 4
Registered: ‎08-06-2007

Re: Unresolved support ticket open for more than six months - is this a record?

Downstream SNR immediately after a reconnection Smiley
B.
Catweazle
Grafter
Posts: 140
Registered: ‎12-01-2009

Re: Unresolved support ticket open for more than six months - is this a record?

Thanks, Barry.
Just rebooted the router and this is showing an SNR margin of 12.0Db (was 25.7 before), line attenuation of 26.0Db (was 25.0) and a sync rate of 4768kbps (was 1600).
Catweazle
Grafter
Posts: 140
Registered: ‎12-01-2009

Re: Unresolved support ticket open for more than six months - is this a record?

Catweazle
Grafter
Posts: 140
Registered: ‎12-01-2009

Re: Unresolved support ticket open for more than six months - is this a record?

Forgot to mention that download speed (according to Mybroadbandspeed and Speedtest.net) is still around 1200kbps.