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Time to replace Technicolor with a better brand of router

Community Veteran
Posts: 3,187
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Registered: 31-07-2007

Time to replace Technicolor with a better brand of router

Since my Vigor died about 3 years ago, I have been using the Free Technicolor 582n until I got sick of the randomness of my connection.  PPP drops and the all too often lost sync's which triggered DLM to stick its nose in.  In September I finally decided to try something new and got a Billion 8800NL, since then unless you or BT do some work or have a major outage I do not drop PPP session or does my router loose sync.
System Up-Time 36D 5H 56M 57S
Connection Time 36 Day(s) 05:55:27
The Technicolor simply could not do that, it would last few days before it would drop a PPP session let alone loose sync once or twice a fortnight.  It is an old gripe from a few of the more vocal posters here, but isn't it about time you divorced Technicolor and got a better brand/quality of router.  Wouldn't a better quality router that does not cause connection drops, reduce your work load in calls/tickets as less customers would be reporting faults?
Then there is the fact that Technicolor have never since I have had your router bothered to implement any changes/improvements to the firmware.  You are paying them to give you a working product after all.
Its firewall simply does not work from the web interface, you can setup port mapping for games, but Strictnat will trigger because it fails to be changed and we have to use telnet to force the changes that should work from the web interface.  Your average console gamer, tell them they need to telnet into their router and they wont have a clue how, if its not upnp they don't want to know.
New year coming so how about you ditch the Technicolor for a better Brand that actually does what its intended to do
Unvalued customer since 2001 funding cheap internet for others / DSL/Fibre house move 24 month regrade from 8th May 2017
21 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Time to replace Technicolor with a better brand of router

What version of firmware is your TG582n running Gus? And there have been improvements to the firmware!
Community Veteran
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Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: Time to replace Technicolor with a better brand of router

Since upgrading the firmware on mine
Uptime: 61 days, 6:02:45
Attenuation:  50.0  dB
Community Veteran
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Re: Time to replace Technicolor with a better brand of router

My current TG582n uptime is 56 days and the only reason it wasn't up longer was a deliberate disconnect by me, and I've had no PPP loss only deliberate Disconnects when checking some Gateways.
Townman's has been up a lot longer and he's on a 50dB line. I'm sure he'll post the exact time when he sees the thread.
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,187
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Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: Time to replace Technicolor with a better brand of router

@Anotherone 8.8.4.4. I think.  As for the uptime on the technicolor, that is just how long its been since its last reboot/power cycle, not its connection length/sync.
Unvalued customer since 2001 funding cheap internet for others / DSL/Fibre house move 24 month regrade from 8th May 2017
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Time to replace Technicolor with a better brand of router

Gus, it'll be 8.4.4.J then I expect and it's noise immunity is not as good as the later 10.2.xx firmwares. Several of us can vouch for that fact, it's not just what Thomson claim!
The Uptime on the TG582n is the time it's been since last sync whether it be dropped connection, power cycle or reboot. I am absolutely certain of that as will be Oldjim, jelv, Townman and others.
Community Veteran
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Registered: 11-08-2007

Re: Time to replace Technicolor with a better brand of router

You will be unsurprised that I completely agree with Gus, and he makes perfectly valid observations.
If Plusnet started using the Billion 8800NL as their default router, then there would be THOUSANDS of happier customers.
Not only would customers be happier, but the level of support needed would be reduced, and this forum wouldn't be full of tedious daily requests about changing DNS, redirected web-pages, poor-WiFi,  port forwarding, or other features only accessible via Telnet.

The TG582n just seems like an unfinished project, where someone got bored and decided not to complete the GUI,  or realized that the WiFi was so poor that completing the firmware was pointless because no amount of software fixes will make the wireless better.
If the latest firmware for the TG582n is so much better (than the original firmware) why don't Plusnet remotely upgrade everyone ?

Perhaps the TG582n fanboys should try using a better router, you will soon realize that configuring your internet shouldn't be a struggle.
Community Veteran
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Re: Time to replace Technicolor with a better brand of router

Nobody said it was the best modem/router in the world and it's clear that Gus's particular issues are related to one of those cases of poor compatibility with his particular line and exchange equipment. You will be unsurprised to learn purleigh that this can happen with other modem/routers occasionally in some circumstances.
As you haven't got a TG582n then you might be surprised to learn that it's perfectly possible to deal with things like Port Forwarding via the GUI. Whilst some may think the GUI is not the best in the world, try looking at a TP-Link - one of the more abysmal ones I have come across where it doesn't seem possible to set it up for even a basic configuration without a log full of incomprehensible error messages.
The TG582n at least has good diagnostic capabilities unlike a lot of other modem/routers.
Whilst from the few reports I've seen, the 8800NL seems to be a pretty good modem/router for ADSL(2+) connections, I've yet to see if its vDSL capabilities are as good. And the other "minor" thing you seem to forget purleigh is the cost. The 8800NL is more expensive. Perhaps you'd like to pay more for your Broadband, especially on a 20CN connection - I wouldn't. The TG582n is a budget modem/router that does the job pretty well for the majority of customers, and it can hardly be that bad a modem/router as it wouldn't be used by a number of other ISPs.
As for it's WiFi performance, any modem/router with just two internal aerials is not going to give the same coverage in some circumstances, but of course there are those that think blasting out a huge signal from some central point to get required coverage is the right thing to do, never mind whether it can interfere with the neighbour down the road or that theirs doing the same thing interferes with your wireless - not the best approach to wireless in my opinion.
As for remotely upgrading firmware across the board, personally I would be against that as with any modem/router firmware upgrade, all customisation is lost and if users are not expecting an upgrade it can be very disruptive - look at the issues the those with BT Home Hubs get with BT constantly messing with the firmware. However that doesn't mean that people with the older firmware shouldn't be offered an upgrade especially if they are having problems with their connection - that comes down to poor internal communication and bad training of CSC and Faults staff.
Superuser
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Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Time to replace Technicolor with a better brand of router

No matter what technology is chosen, someone is going to complain that for THEIR demands, the solution is not good enough.  The Billion 8800NL costs somewhere between £60 & £70 and that price point needs to be recognised in this debate and set against the much lower price point of the TG582n which is provided as a "free" get you going solution which appears to fulfil the needs of the majority of users.
Yes the 10.2.2.B firmware is MUCH better than the earlier versions - over the years I have had many different modem / routers, however none of them have delivered connection sessions as long as 167 days (xDSL) and 97 days (PPP) sessions.
No product is perfect for all situations and user interface expectations.  There are though plenty of choices out there for personal purchase.
Quote from: purleigh
The TG582n just seems like an unfinished project, where someone got bored and decided not to complete the GUI,  or realized that the WiFi was so poor that completing the firmware was pointless because no amount of software fixes will make the wireless better.
If the latest firmware for the TG582n is so much better (than the original firmware) why don't Plusnet remotely upgrade everyone ?

Perhaps the TG582n fanboys should try using a better router, you will soon realize that configuring your internet shouldn't be a struggle.

Purleigh,
I'm a little surprised by your comments, it is unlike you to use pejorative phrases such as "fanboy" to be dismissive of points of view.  "Better" is a rather subjective and relative term; what is "better" for one person is not necessarily "better" for another.
There is always a need to consider the balance between complexity (to expose rich functionality) and simplicity of use.  As a mass market device, I suggest that the TG582n fits its target market (non-technical user requiring basic plug & play set-up) well.  Clearly the better firmware addresses some historical issues - is that not the same for any product other there?  At least TG have provided software updates, unlike many other manufacturers.  Anotherone makes the point about the auto-update of firmware well - I am sure that there would be a storm of complaints if PN did a blanket update, especially as the new firmware makes any previous configuration back-up useless.
As for the "limitations" of configuring the device, I have a lot of devices many with fixed IP addresses and a number of port-forwarding settings all configured through the GUI.  The only reasons I have had for resorting to the telnet interface is to adjust the WiFi speed configuration and for obtaining diagnostic information.
...at least this router does have a telnet interface, which is more than can be said for some budget routers.
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Re: Time to replace Technicolor with a better brand of router

It's difficult to compare the retail cost of a single Billion 8800NL with some unknown amount Plusnet pay for the Technicolor units in bulk, presumably with some sort of support arrangement (for those firmware updates that Technicolor supply only to ISPs) to be factored in. Plusnet still claim the 582n is "worth" £40. For FTTC installs it costs Plusnet extra for Openreach to supply a VDSL2 modem as part of the installation (£80 vs. £49 according to the WBC price spreadsheet). The VDSL2 capability of the 8800NL would not be used by ADSL customers, but then the ADSL capability of a 582n isn't used by FTTC customers.
The Billion 8800NL has internal antenna for its wireless.
As for the long DSL connection uptimes, they could partly be down to people having ideal internal wiring, a good line, being prepared to have an Openreach engineer out as many times as necessary, or just having a modem that connects at a fairly conservative speed. I think Oldjim gets a poor speed for their 50db line attenuation. A 167 day DSL uptime might not really be needed for anything, but then I suppose you could argue that a couple of hundred extra kbit/s on a long line (perhaps only 5%) doesn't really make much difference either.
However, sometimes it seems that somehow, the problem is never with a Technicolor router. Wireless problems? The problem always ends up being any and every other router in the vicinity. Downloading with Google Chrome causing the Technicolor router to crash? Somehow it was claimed that the problem was with Google Chrome. Problem with the Technicolor DNS forwarder returning 198.18.1.X IP addresses? Somehow Plusnet's DNS servers, Windows 8.1 and DNS pre-fetching all get dragged into the issue, and any problems with the Technicolor firmware get somewhat downplayed. The problem with the 585v8 crashing when certain wireless devices connected got labelled a "compatibility" issue.
The inability to migrate configuration shouldn't really be some sort of unsolvable problem either.
Community Veteran
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Re: Time to replace Technicolor with a better brand of router

In my case updating the firmware improved the stability enormously because of the much better bit swapping
Now it recovers from 3.5dB overnight to 6dB whereas before it didn't due to dropped tones not repopulating
Superuser
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Re: Time to replace Technicolor with a better brand of router

Ejs,
No one suggested that there are no problems with the TG, however the suggestion put forward that is is totally [Censored] is also not true.  Gus has sought to make comparisons between a high end router and an accepted to be cheap as chips stack them high mass market devices.  The comparison is not appropriate and ignores commercial realities.  Frankly it matters not which router one puts up as a standard, someone is going to find something to complain about.
As for guessing the price of the TG, well whatever PN pays for them, they are going to claim that they are worth the top dollar retail price; you can be certain that they pay a lot less than £40 for them.
As for reference to my thread elsewhere about other factors being dragged in, those are the facts - when the three elements are brought together there are issues seen by users.  This is the nature of computer systems - individually things work fine, however when two or more components are functioning at the extremes of their tollerencies, unexpected things happen.  I've seen it many times and through detailed analysis have found systems verging on the edge of complete failure before they have actually done so.  I hope to hear more on the spoofing issue soon.
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Re: Time to replace Technicolor with a better brand of router

The £60 to £70 retail price for the VDSL2 capable 8800NL is certainly not high end! That's about as low as VDSL2 modem/routers have got so far. Nor is it really a high end device since it only has one gigabit Ethernet port (plus three 100Mbit ports) and doesn't have ac wireless.
tooslow
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Re: Time to replace Technicolor with a better brand of router

I just replaced mine with a Asus router/modem and not my internet absolutely fly's along! The Techicolour was awful by comparison.
Superuser
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Re: Time to replace Technicolor with a better brand of router

...and how much did that router cost you - and can you remind me how much you paid for the TG582n please?