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The end of ‘unlimited’? Maybe…

Community Veteran
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Registered: 05-04-2007

The end of ‘unlimited’? Maybe…

http://www.computerworlduk.com/management/online/isp/news/index.cfm?newsid=20748
One particularly choice quote:
Quote
The likely outcome is that the word ‘unlimited’ will be banned unless a service is intended to have no data limit or shaping to enforce that by the back door.

I wonder if Plusnet might now be willing to concede that calling a blatantly limited product ‘Unlimited’ might have been a bad choice?
I know it doesn't matter much now that the Unlimited product is no longer even sold, but that was always something that really irked me, when Plusnet went from ‘you know, there's no such thing as a real unlimited product’ to ‘hey, look at our new Unlimited product! It really is genuinely unlimited, honest!’. I know I and a few others complained about it, calling for a name change to something like ‘Unmetered’ – so I'm pleased to see some vindication at last.
(Ok, I admit it. This is basically a post saying ‘I told you so’. Embarrassed )
17 REPLIES
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Re: The end of ‘unlimited’? Maybe…

It did at the time appear to be a simple case of double standards Wink

Customer and Forum Moderator.

To argue with someone who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead - Thomas Paine
Mand
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Re: The end of ‘unlimited’? Maybe…

Not an argument even I can win in 4 hours Wink but IMO saying Unlimited when there genuinely isn't a usage cap is fine, it's when the word is used and then there's an arbitrary cap (like O2 and they're recent Access limitations) that there's an issue.
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Re: The end of ‘unlimited’? Maybe…

Being myself on the "unlimited" product. I have seen no emails telling me that I need to cut down on my d/ling, Yes it is heavily profiled but there is no cap on it, better than the O2 Unlimited = 10Gb/mth  Crazy
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Re: The end of ‘unlimited’? Maybe…

It's the implication of the word unlimited that people have.
As much data as you want at the fastest speed your line will support with no management or cap.
A totally financially unsustainable situation.

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To argue with someone who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead - Thomas Paine
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Re: The end of ‘unlimited’? Maybe…

Quote from: Hairy
Being myself on the "unlimited" product.

Do they allow you to download at line speed, any protocol, 24x7?
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
magnetism2772
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Re: The end of ‘unlimited’? Maybe…

baffling
phone<--------------------------------->BB and Phone, ISP provision <------------>Internet networks --------------<----------->

we each rent and have or our seperate telephone  copper cabled phone lines (for privacy etc,  )
except for copper impedances or resistances in our lines
what stops data travelling to and fro all day every day every month every year
from being unlimited and costing an individual more?
except for making more out of less (additional customers without  the additional architecture   )
and vested interests like the music and movie industry to prevent movie and music streams
its welcome to hollywood and not unlimited bband
data  shaping through copper cables
is but the greedy interests propoganda, preventing  the speed of electrons (travelling to and fro from our phone lines at the speed of light)


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Re: The end of ‘unlimited’? Maybe…

Quote from: jelv
Do they allow you to download at line speed, any protocol, 24x7?
Quote from: Hairy
Yes it is heavily profiled but there is no cap on it

Surely that would be UNRESTRICTED not Unlimited ?
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Re: The end of ‘unlimited’? Maybe…

A post of mine from February 2009
Quote from: jelv
Quote from: Peter
I think you're perhaps being a tad disingenuous when you say the new products are 'throttled to death'.

I suggest you are being somewhat disingenuous by calling the product Unlimited. In case you haven't seen what I said earlier in this topic I'll repeat my comments here (there was no comment from Plusnet on the suggestion I made).
The unlimited product it isn't unlimited. For downloading files a simple formula applies: hours x rate limit for the protocol = the maximum amount you can download. To me there is a very simple test: Is the amount that can be downloaded on the account less than that which could be downloaded if there were not any restrictions on protocols? If so it is not unlimited. Plusnet "Unlimited" fails this test.
Now if you had called it Plusnet Unmetered - i.e. we don't care how much you download and there is no FUP (visible or hidden) - it would be a totally accurate description of the product.
Let me make one thing very clear at this point. I am not criticising the product, I think it is a very good product and an excellent move by Plusnet providing people buying it understand correctly what they are buying. What absolutely sucks is the name and the way it is being marketed.
The product you have launched is unlike any offering I've seen from any other ISP. The limit on it's usage is similar to contention (however on your network scale rather than just being contended per exchange), but far more intelligent. You have long experience of tuning the network to give priority to the protocols that matter when someone is sat at the keyboard. Plusnet bragged about leading the field on traffic management and the specification of this product means it should be a market leader. However instead of leading the market again by giving the product a correct name you pull a dumb stunt and go back on everything you has said over the years by copying the totally misleading naming of the all the other ISPs.
Do you not realise that you have missed a golden opportunity? People who don't know Plusnet may know that Unlimited means far from that with other ISPs, they'll see Plusnet Unlimited and won't look at the details. It may be that they know Plusnet and if so they may well remember that you said that there could be no such thing as unlimited and dismiss the product without reading the details. However if they saw Plusnet Unmetered it would be different, they'd stop and look to see what it was about, why it was different to that offered by other ISPs. You could make it crystal clear that Unmetered meant no FUP. You could complain to the ASA if other ISP's tried to copy you (as they would) with products called Unmetered but with a FUP. You could have been the leader by being what you used to be - honest.
When you said there could never be an Unlimited product at an affordable price you were right. You should be stressing that Unlimited means hidden caps, FUPs, general slowdowns across all protocols and stressing that Plusnet Unmetered is different, far more intelligent with full speed browsing and gaming.
Be different, be honest, be better!
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Mand
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Re: The end of ‘unlimited’? Maybe…

I'm fairly sure that was answered at the time jelv.
Ultimately, our products are market driven, at the time to compete in the market we needed an Unlimited product, however with the introduction of ADSL2+ speeds it would have been commercially unviable so the products changed to suit. It's fair to say Unlimited was moderately successful, but I can't see a return.
We have an advantage that parts of the market don't have in that we can roll out new products fairly quickly, we won't apologise for making the most of that advantage at times.
Community Veteran
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Re: The end of ‘unlimited’? Maybe…

Quote from: Mand
.... at the time to compete in the market we needed an Unlimited product, ......

In other words Plusnet decided to go back on what they originally said..... then changed their mind again. Unlimited is possible..... it is just not cheap.
matt_2k34
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Re: The end of ‘unlimited’? Maybe…

Quote
Unlimited is possible..... it is just not cheap.

Indeed, only an idiot would sell a truely "unmetered" product without charging ridiculously for it.
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Re: The end of ‘unlimited’? Maybe…

I reckon you could be confusing things a tad there Matt; by ‘unmetered’, jelv and I mean a product that has no defined usage limit, but is still limited in other ways (i.e. throttling) – such as PN's old Unlimited product, which of course was only £16/£20. What I suspect you're thinking of is a truly unlimited product, which as you say would have to cost lots and lots of money.
I do recall that back when Data Transfer Watch was called, well, Data Transfer Watch, it used to say something along the lines of PN would never charge you more than £99 (maybe £99.99) for your usage. Thus, it was technically possible to get a truly unlimited product from PN by subscribing to Pro and then hitting that pricey ceiling. However, I note that there is now no longer anything on the new DTW-esque page that indicates that little concession is still in effect.
matt_2k34
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Re: The end of ‘unlimited’? Maybe…

mmm, just poor choice of words Smiley i meant unlimited, but ill leave it as-is for continuity  Grin
i am only human  Huh lol
severedsolo
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Re: The end of ‘unlimited’? Maybe…

I realise this is a bit of a dud thread now (last post was 10 days ago) but just my $0.02 worth. My old ISP, Virgin Media, actually did offer an unlimited service, I wont even put quotes around it, as it really was unlimited. You could take as much as you wanted, no usage caps, no FUP and very little traffic shaping (gaming streaming and VOIP got priority, everything else got the rest of the space) and they offered it for a very reasonable £35 a month including phone. (Market 1 exchange, ADSL not cable)
Sounds great you might say.... well actually no it wasn't. Due to their lack of network management, at peak times the network would get clogged, and you would end up just about scraping 512kbps from it, and I have an 8meg line. Im not being funny... VM doesnt exactly have a huge ADSL customer base, compared to the other "Unlimited" (quotes deserved there, due to FUP's etc.) big boys, most of their business comes from cable.
IMO This just goes to show, that a truly unlimited service (as being shown in the above article) just wouldn't work. With speeds getting faster, and our demand for internet usage getting higher, it would result in ALOT of complaints about slow speeds.
Now a truly Unmetred service, with no FUP but necessary traffic shaping, well I would be well behind that.