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Profile resetting is just an urban myth!

hadden
Grafter
Posts: 486
Thanks: 2
Registered: 27-07-2007

Profile resetting is just an urban myth!

I've been here before and I expect to be here again, as PN says this is not supported and more  Sad
This summer, after 6 months of patiently waiting, my target SNR finally dropped to 6dB and I was able to get a 4500 kbps profile. However, to keep it stable, I have a manually set SNR slightly higher than 6dB and so have had a consistent  4000 kbps profile.
Thanks to some load balancing last week, my ADSL got upset and disconnected and reconnected in the evening resulting in a chronic reconnection speed.
This starts the usual cascade of problems... BT profile drops down right away, very shortly followed by the PN profile, because the system decides that a disconnection must absolutely mean that the line is bad. Wrong!
So I manually set the SNR to try and recover some of the speed. However, this only resulted in my target SNR increasing to 12dB!
So, I tried resetting my router once per day (mid-morning) for three days and waited to see if the relevant equipment would realise the true situation about my connection, ie there is not a fault.
On the last of these I managed to tweak the SNR enough to get connected at 4000 kbps. Then waited...

So yesterday was three days from the last router reset... has my profile been increased as it should do!
I ran the BT Speed tester... it confirmed the connection speed was still 4000 kbps and also showed the the profile had now returned back up to 3500kbps.
Now I just needed the PN profile to catch up... can't be long now?
So, today is 24 hours since the BT profile updated and the PN profile is still showing 3000 kbps.
I was just considering posting here to have a moan about that a few minutes ago, when my router chose that moment to reset. Coincidence?
No, it was a pre-emptive strike from the enemy! My SNR has just been increased to 15dB!
By what logic does 4 days of consistent connection get rewarded with an SNR increase!
Is there really a logical system controlling the profiles or is that just an urban myth?
31 REPLIES
LittleReggie
Grafter
Posts: 54
Registered: 20-11-2008

Re: Profile resetting is just an urban myth!

i have had my bt profile drop before without the plusnet profile following suit. up to now, it has always caught up about a day after my bt profile has returned to "normal". it does seem to be a little inconsistent in this regard.
if i understand correctly, LLU adsl connections do not have line profiles at all - the speed you get is relative to whatever your current sync speed is - wouldnt that be nice!! the only thing the LLU ISPs seem to be able to adjust is your target SNR. can someone confirm this?
Mand
Grafter
Posts: 5,560
Thanks: 1
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Profile resetting is just an urban myth!

@JohnJ, when looking at some line profiling issues I think logic is a matter of interpretation!
In any case, I've updated your profile to 4000.
What're you syncing at now?
Mand
Grafter
Posts: 5,560
Thanks: 1
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Profile resetting is just an urban myth!

@LittleReggie, IP profiles and such are not relevant to LLU connections, you get pretty much the speed you're syncing at (minus overheads of course).
hadden
Grafter
Posts: 486
Thanks: 2
Registered: 27-07-2007

Re: Profile resetting is just an urban myth!

@Mand
I will try to be subjective when interpreting the implied logic Smiley
I'm not confident about doing a reset at this time of day, however, as you said so... I have done it.
Before resetting the router I was connected at 3864 kbps...
Afetr resetting the router.. it reconnected at 2528 kbps with SNR @ 15dB
So I would expect the BT equipment would use that as an excuse to set their profile at 2000 kbps Sad
I therefore did a manual over-ride on the target SNR to see if I could recover the situation a bit, but could only bring it up to 10.6dB with a sync speed of 3264 kbps, so BT might let me get 2500 kbps if they ignore the first connection Sad
Thanks for setting the profile at PlusNet, but I think I'm also fighting an artificially high target SNR. Is there anything you can help with there?
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: Profile resetting is just an urban myth!

am not hundered % on this but i belive ive seen anotherone post quoting you have a grace period of somthing like 70mins to resync and raise your sync back up the profile ladder with out it droping to the lowest profile you synced at.
dont hold me to that and put me before the firing squad if your profile drops to 2000kbps thoe plz  Smiley
hadden
Grafter
Posts: 486
Thanks: 2
Registered: 27-07-2007

Re: Profile resetting is just an urban myth!

@ASBO DOG
Thanks, I have a similar level of recall about the 70 mins, so I can blame myself as much as anyone else for expecting to be able to do a few resyncs within that time.
This time, it took four attempts to get the sync from 2528 up to 3264, when I felt it was a case of diminishing returns and stopped for fear of upsetting the ADSL gods.
BT still have my profile at 3000 kbps. But I'm still kind of resigned to a 2500 kbps weekend now. I'll just go and whimper in a corner...
Mand
Grafter
Posts: 5,560
Thanks: 1
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: Profile resetting is just an urban myth!

We can request a reset of the SNR, however can't guarantee that this will be granted. Please raise a ticket and post the number and I'll get the request sent.
hadden
Grafter
Posts: 486
Thanks: 2
Registered: 27-07-2007

Re: Profile resetting is just an urban myth!

@Mand
I understand.
Ticket number is 30976031
Thanks and good luck.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Profile resetting is just an urban myth!

Well good luck with your profile, but if my memory serves me right, if you have more than 2 resyncs below a particular profile band within the 75 mins, the profile will go down.
Also, load balancing would not affect the modem/router's sync with the exchange, so if I were you, I'd keep an eye on things, something else may be going on. Haven't had any lightning in the last couple of days have you?
hadden
Grafter
Posts: 486
Thanks: 2
Registered: 27-07-2007

Re: Profile resetting is just an urban myth!

You're right, I can't rule out any root cause, while I don't know exactly what caused the initial problem. I can only try to look for clues and see if i can spot a pattern. However, I have had a couple of disconnects before 'coincidentally' when load balancing was going on.
I tell myself, as you say, that they should not be directly connected to the sync with the exchange, but wondered if the mechanism for connecting/disconnecting users can send some data to the modem/router (DG834G v4) that indirectly triggers some error condition that results in a reset?
If that is true, then I'm not blaming either the router or the load balancing, more just realising that "things happen" when systems are connected together.
My reason for suspecting the load balancing event is:
My router had been connected constantly for 6 weeks. On 16/11/09 I'd checked the gateway as I didn't want to be on pcl-ag03 if a disconnect was carried out during that evening, due to the earlier status messages, and noted that it was connected on gateway pcl-ag04.  At about 18:50 the router reset. I was standing about 2 metres from the router when it was reset (so could confirm that no human or animal interference was involved) and the weather was fine. I was aware of the reset within a minute of it happening because I have RouterStats running with tight alarm parameters set. A PN status message came through a few hours later saying "Our engineers have re-routed a third of the traffic destined for pcl-ag03 to a different gateway (pcl-ag04).".

My profile appears to have been retained at 3000 kbps overnight even though I was connected at 3264 all that time, which is contrary to what I understand should happen, but I'm not complaining, this time.
I carried out a daytime reset a short time ago. The default target SNR is still 15dB and the initial sync was at 2688 kbps. Over the new couple of minutes I tried to force the target SNR down to get a higher sync. I was able to get the SNR down to 9.6 but sync would get no higher than 3776. So I settled for 3552 with SNR at 10.8 dB as it was sufficient for a 3000 kbps profile.
While the initial resync this morning was 2688 the other resyncs were all in the range 3552-3776 (ie 3000 profile), so that supports the 75 minute rule.
However last night the resyncs were 2528, 3168, 3168, 3264. All of those are below the 3000 kbps profile and were carried out within a couple of minutes, so were well within 75 minutes of each other.
As Mand says the logic is subject to interpretation, but surely someone must know what's going on?
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Profile resetting is just an urban myth!

Yes, the crazy idiots that wrote the software!
VileReynard
Seasoned Pro
Posts: 10,797
Thanks: 241
Fixes: 10
Registered: 01-09-2007

Re: Profile resetting is just an urban myth!

Quote from: Anotherone
Well good luck with your profile, but if my memory serves me right, if you have more than 2 resyncs below a particular profile band within the 75 mins, the profile will go down.

Are you sure?
I thought the situation was that if you have only 2 resyncs (or more) below a profile band within your 75 mins, your profile will go down.
If you have just 1 resync below a band and 1 resync back up to your current band, both within 75 mins, you may be lucky and your profile might escape unchanged.  Cheesy
However, if this happens very often, then you will be penalised.

hadden
Grafter
Posts: 486
Thanks: 2
Registered: 27-07-2007

Re: Profile resetting is just an urban myth!

I carried out another router reset this morning. The first resync was 2816 kbps with 15.3 dB SNR. I manually reduced the target SNR and got a second resync of 3648 with 10.6 dB SNR.
However before the reset I noted that the BT Speedtester states that my profile is 3000 k but the Plusnet profile had reduced to 2500 overnight.
Shouldn't the low Friday night results have reduced the profile to 2500 kbps on Friday, according to the 75 minute rule (4 results below the 3000 kbps range). However my download speeds all yesterday remained consistent with a 3000 kbps profile. As the profile at Plusnet reduced last night, could that have been the 75 minute rule applying, but with a delay?
I'm sure I also recall a previous situation where the profile that BT reports to us on their speedtester is not the same as BT report to Plusnet through their systems. So I may be trying to understand the situation with very few facts to go on...  only rumours and myths.
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,100
Thanks: 437
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Profile resetting is just an urban myth!

Yes I've heard that, there also seems to have been some evidence of PN using out of date profiles!!