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Plus net unable to supply internet and want to charge me £155 to leave.

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jack087
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Plus net unable to supply internet and want to charge me £155 to leave.

So,

 

I would appreciate some thoughts on this.

 

Took out an 18month contract for broadband. I rang to make plus net aware that I will be moving and I shall be taking the internet with me. Man on the phone said " when you move in to your new address, give us a call and we shall set it up for you", I thought that was simple and easy.  When I called plus net to give them my new address they have told me that they cannot supply internet to new build houses and therefore my contract must be terminated to the tune of £155 (cancellation fee). It is not my fault that plus net cant provide the internet, therefore i don't feel that a fee of £155 is fair.

 

Regards

 

Jack

37 REPLIES
jack087
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Moved house,cant supply internet yet charging me £155

So,

 

I would appreciate some thoughts on this.

 

Took out an 18month contract for broadband. I rang to make plus net aware that I will be moving and I shall be taking the internet with me. Man on the phone said " when you move in to your new address, give us a call and we shall set it up for you", I thought that was simple and easy.  When I called plus net to give them my new address they have told me that they cannot supply internet to new build houses and therefore my contract must be terminated to the tune of £155 (cancellation fee). It is not my fault that plus net cant provide the internet, therefore i don't feel that a fee of £155 is fair.

 

Regards

 

Jack

 

 

Superuser
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Re: Plus net unable to supply internet and want to charge me £155 to leave.

Hi Jack,

A warm welcome to the forums.  Is your new house a new build (only served by FTTP - no copper) or is it in an area not served by BT Openreach at all?  Or is this a matter of you being on Fibre now, but there is no fibre availability at your new home, but ADSL is available?

Unfortunately Plusnet do not offer a get out of jail free option in the event that they cannot continue service at your new home...

https://www.plus.net/help/legal/terms/

9.3. If we can't provide any broadband service to your new home, you'll have to pay early termination charges as set out in the Price Guide.

Being forced to remain in contract or pay ETCs where a supplier can no longer supply could be considered to be an unreasonable unfair restriction and therefore might be unenforceable, but that would need to be tested by the courts / Ofcom.  However the latter is pretty useless most of the time, as can be seen from this finding against Virgin Media in respect to people wanting to retain their contract but have moved to a non-served area...

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/05/ofcom-uk-finds-fault-with-virgin-media-contract-termin...

Some consumers had also previously complained that it was unfair to charge them ETCs if they had Virgin Media and wished to retain the service but were moving to a new house that existed outside of the operator’s network area. Unfortunately Ofcom has today decided that this specific complaint “does not fall within the scope of GC 9.3,” although they are “continuing to consider whether these terms raise concerns … and we will provide an update in due course.”

Plusnet are not alone in operating this 'behaviour' - I suggest that a referral to Ofcom asking them to follow through on their May 2018 findings is long over due.

 

http://www.talktalk.co.uk/media/pdf/legal/TalkTalk_Customer_Terms_and_Conditions_v20180110.pdf

17.2 We’ll try our best to transfer the services but, if we can’t transfer some or all of them, and any are in the minimum period, you may have to pay the charges to the end of the minimum period.

 

https://www.sky.com/shop/__PDF/Sky_Broadband_Talk_UK.pdf

6.2 If you change your Address, this Contract will continue unless you exercise a right to end it under this Contract or we are unable to transfer your Sky Talk services to your new address. You will need to ensure that you have a working BT compatible line at your new address. We may charge you any costs we reasonably incur as a result of a transfer. We will tell you whether a charge applies and the amount before processing your move but you can also see whether we currently charge for transferring services at https://www.sky.com/help/articles/moving-home-faqs.

The Sky T&C is not completely clear if ETCs do or do not apply here - this condition follows the ETC conditions.  It is clear that the contract will not continue if they cannot transfer the service, but I suggest remains ambiguous about ETCs.

 

http://www.vodafone.co.uk/terms-and-conditions/index.htm

7.5 (c) If we are unable, for any reason, to provide Home Broadband and Phone Services to your new address in the UK then you will be entitled to end this Agreement subject to provision by you of reasonable evidence of your change of address and payment by you of all charges owing up to the date that we disconnect your service. We reserve the right to apply any termination fees or charges. For more details, please see our Price Guide

 

Surprise of surprises BT Retail is very reasonable where they cannot provide service.

https://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/static/terms/post3rdjuly2016voiceandbroadband.html 

Charges for ending the agreement early

  1. You'll have to pay us a fee for ending the agreement early if:
    • you end a service during the minimum term, except in the circumstances listed in clause 13c below; or
    • we end a service during the minimum term, in line with clauses 11b(iii) to 11b(xii).
  2. Equipment: If you end a service during the minimum term and you haven't paid for any of the equipment in full, we may charge you the full price of the equipment (except in the circumstances listed in clause 13c). For example, this may happen if we've given you a home hub and you didn't pay the full price for it.
  3. You won't have to pay the fees and charges referred to in clauses 13a and 13b if:
    • you end a service within the cooling-off period as shown in clause 10a;
    • you end a service under clause 17b as a result of changes that significantly disadvantage you;
    • you end a service under clause 10d as a result of us breaking a significant term of the agreement;
    • you end a service under clause 10f as a result of faults with that service;
    • you end the BT Broadband service under clause 10g as a result of consistently low broadband speeds;
    • you end a service under clause 22a as a result of us moving you to another service; or
    • you move home and we cannot provide a service at your new UK address.

 

You could always try asking for compensation from Plusnet under clause 13

13.1. If you let us know you've suffered an intermittent or continuous total loss of service we'll refund a pro-rata amount of any subscription fees you have paid in respect of that period of loss of service, except where:

but they might claim the MBORC get out of jail free - we accept no responsibility for anything card...

13.1.4. the failure is due to matters beyond our reasonable control

 

My personal position would be "I want to continue my agreement with you (Plusnet) but if you cannot fulfil that agreement then YOU default on the contract.  However, in good grace, recognising your difficulty here, I will not pursue a claim for breach of contact if you agree to simply allow the contact to cease without penalty".

It would be very interesting to see how non-payment of ETCs in these circumstances plays out in court.

Judge: So let me make sure I clearly understand your case Mr ISP - you want the defendant to pay you for a service they told you they wanted, but you cannot supply?  Are you for real here? Crazy3

Plusnet Help Team
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Re: Moved house,cant supply internet yet charging me £155

 

Hi @jack087

 

Thanks for getting in touch.

 

Although I sympathise with your situation, I'm afraid it does specify in our terms that should you move and we're unable to provide service, early termination fees would apply. Extract below (from the full terms here):

 

9. Moving home

9.1. If you want to move your broadband or fibre broadband service during your minimum term you may have to pay a home move fee as set out in the Price Guide or enter a new agreement with us with a new minimum term.

9.2. If you have fibre broadband, but we can't provide it at your new home, you can move to our broadband service without penalty.

9.3. If we can't provide any broadband service to your new home, you'll have to pay early termination charges as set out in the Price Guide.

9.4. Other home move charges (such as fees for installing a new line) may also apply as set out in the Price Guide.

 

These terms are part of the contract that you accepted when you signed up and are also available prior to taking out any contract with us.

 

Best wishes

 

Dave

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Dave G
 Plusnet Help Team
SpendLessTime
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Re: Plus net unable to supply internet and want to charge me £155 to leave.

Jack

I would consider asking for advice from the Citizen Advice Bureau https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/get-more-help/if-you-need-more-help-about-a-consumer-issu... as Plusnet seem to be intransigent going from the other post that they answered.

 

Or try the press as they love a good consumer story. Anna Tims a the Guardian is one such person

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/nov/15/edreams-booking-ticket-name-error

If you need help email Anna Tims at your.problems@observer.co.uk or write to Your Problems, The Observer, Kings Place, 90 York Way, London N1 9GU. Include an address and phone number. Submission and publication 

daveplus
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Re: Moved house,cant supply internet yet charging me £155

I would lodge a complaint using the Help Assistant at https://www.plus.net/wizard/?p=wizard&page=22909&wizard_id=38

Plusnet Help Team
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Re: Moved house,cant supply internet yet charging me £155

 

Hi @daveplus.

 

The OP is absolutely within his rights to raise a complaint, however, as I've indicated in my initial response, the terms and conditions of the contract that was agreed to at the point of sale specifically advises that early termination fees would apply in the event of the situation that the OP has described. As such, the outcome of any further contact is likely to produce a similar response.

 

Best wishes

 

Dave

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 Dave G
 Plusnet Help Team
Superuser
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Re: Plus net unable to supply internet and want to charge me £155 to leave.

That is a useful angle, but I fear that this is likely to be a matter of "an agreement is an agreement" which has enforceable grounds.

It is likely to need a court case to test its enforceability...

  • Were the terms clear?
  • Did the minor party have reasonable grounds to believe that the supplier would not be able to supply a service pan-territory?  (For example Kingston-Upon-Hull is virtually a no-go zone)
  • Therefore are the terms fair and enforceable

I would like to see Ofcom do something useful here and take down all of the ISPs who find themselves unable to supply any service in a new location but still seek to extract ETCs.

An alternative angle would be to not accept termination of the supply contract, be prepared to continue paying the monthly charges and then sue Plusnet for not providing the paid for service.  There has to be some reasonable argument here of deliver what is being paid for or expect no payment for delivering nothing.

ETCs being applied where the supplier cannot supply is simply unreasonable.  I can understand ETCs being applied if the person in contract seeks to use a home move as a reason for terminating early, when a comparable service could have been provided.

If this is a case of the new home only having FTTP, then the inability to supply a service is not MBORC (Plusnet has chosen to exit the FTTP market place therefore though available, the inability to offer service is in PlusNet's control) and therefore 13.1.4 fails as a defence against paying compensation.

SpendLessTime
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Re: Plus net unable to supply internet and want to charge me £155 to leave.

@Townman

Yes in the event that Plusnet don't bend to external pressure then Jack would have to test if the terms and conditions are lawful by pursuing a claim in the Small Claims Court. Just because Plusnet say that's how it is,  doesn't mean it really is. Only a court can decide that on the facts.

Sometimes the glare of publicity is enough to get a company to offer a no-fault settlement.

jack087
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Re: Moved house,cant supply internet yet charging me £155

I wasn't originally aware of these terms.... you are cheating, sly scum bags and I will be taking this as far as I possibly can. You can't provide internet but instead of holding your hands up you charge the customer... have a word ! Tell you what, I'll give plus net 1p per month to pay for it.... idiots!
jab1
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Re: Moved house,cant supply internet yet charging me £155

@jack087 As @RandallFlagg has pointed out, this is covered in the T&C's which you are assumed to have read before agreeing a contract. The fact that you obviously didn't read them is not Plusnets problem, and if you try and take this further, I think I know who will win - Contract Law is Contract Law.

John
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jab1
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Re: Plus net unable to supply internet and want to charge me £155 to leave.

@Townman, @SpendLessTime - be aware this is a cross-posting with the Broadband board - @RandallFlagg and I have both posted in there!

John
daveplus
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Re: Moved house,cant supply internet yet charging me £155

Ofcom are currently considering the issue of early termination charges and they may eventually take a different view: https://www.ofcom.org.uk/about-ofcom/latest/bulletins/competition-bulletins/open-cases/cw_01199

jab1
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Re: Moved house,cant supply internet yet charging me £155

Thanks for that, @daveplus, but I think that as things stand at the moment, it would take a court case to decide - see this same thread in Feedback

John
jack087
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Re: Moved house,cant supply internet yet charging me £155

@jab1... regardless of the terms do you think it's fair that because plus net are unable to supply internet I should be charged £155... if so your as bad as them...