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People who move to another supplier

topher1
Newbie
Posts: 8
Registered: 22-01-2009

People who move to another supplier

I left Plus Net a short time ago for three reasons
1.  Cheaper
2.  Faster
3.  No cap
My local exchange until recently has been totally bundled.  Then O2 put in some equipment.  It is ADSL2+.  It can be up to 3 times faster (depending how far you are from the exchnge).  Also by having an O2 mobile phone account, it is much cheaper.  The first three months rental is free.  Their 24/7 0800 xxx phone support is brilliant. 
Until Plus Net starts buying some ADSL kit and lowering prices they will gradually loose business.
Come on PlusNet.  Invest some money and get going.  I will be curious to see if this post is removed.  I will also be interested to see if |I get an answer.
Good luck,............Topher.                                    Cheesy
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31 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,789
Registered: 08-06-2007

Re: People who move to another supplier

Plusnet are tied to using BT's infrastructure, so their ADSL2+ product has to wait for BT exchange upgrades, (which are now happening)
Alternatively, Plusnet could put their own infrastructure into exchanges, at a MASSIVE cost which would have to be paid by the customer - they don't have large pools of cash to cross-subsidise with, unfortunately (and it wouldn't make economic sense, seeing as they're owned by BT)
B.
craigyoung
Grafter
Posts: 208
Registered: 06-09-2007

Re: People who move to another supplier

@topher1
Why would this post be removed?  One thing PN have always demonstrated is that they are not afraid of discussing criticism and addressing customer concerns.
Lurker
Grafter
Posts: 1,867
Registered: 23-10-2008

Re: People who move to another supplier

Only extremely naive companies would assume that they are right for absolutely everybody; everybody wants and needs different things.
The thing each company needs to maintain is their core product line - so long as Plusnet deliver the service they promise in the way that they promise it, they are doing all they need to.
For those who don't want one of those packages, its expected that they would go somewhere that delivered something right for them.
Not all PN staff use PN as their ISP Wink
James
Grafter
Posts: 21,036
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: People who move to another supplier

Hi Topher,
I think you need to realise how much money you're talking about.  To unbundle an exchange, you're looking at anything from £50,000 (for a very small exchange) to in excess of £1,000,000 (for a large one) based on the number of DSLAMs required and the backhaul requirements.
This article talk about various things, including costs associated with unbundling an exchange.  It shows that the backhaul costs ALONE are in excess of £450,000 with annual running costs of £167,000.
Given that there's a number of thousand exchanges in the UK, do you think that we have around £1B to play with?  Of course we don't.  We're a tier 2 ISP, albeit with BT Retail backing, but it just wouldn't make financial sense to go around unbundling exchanges based on the ludicrous costs associated, especially when you consider the ongoing ADSL2+ upgrades that are going on throughout the country.
We do invest in our platform.  We continually increase the amount of central capacity available to our customers, with a good example being the extra 155Mbps segment we added yesterday, which costs in the region of £350k per year.
topher1
Newbie
Posts: 8
Registered: 22-01-2009

Re: People who move to another supplier

Hi Barry, James and Jameseh,  Thanks for the clear and prompt replies.  I understand the situation now.  It seems to me that you are in difficult circumstances.  I would hope that BT will give you some sort of priority as they install the new ADSL kit.  By the way, I am not sure if this is common knowledge, but the increased speed with ADSL2+ also comes with greatly improved remote diagnostics, making the whole service better and cheaper.
Hi Cyoung,  I am pleased to see that I can post criticism without it being removed.  Well done Plus Net.  So in the same vein, one thing that I notice from moving to O2 is their technical customer support.  An 0800 number 24/7, and a very competent team.  One night I phoned quite late and spoke to someone who I later discovered was a 2nd level team leader.  I got a fantastic response.  If any one is interested, I can say a lot more about why I find O2 so much better. 
Regards,........Topher.
MuppetGrinder
Grafter
Posts: 151
Registered: 10-10-2008

Re: People who move to another supplier

Quote from: topher1
1.  Cheaper
2.  Faster
3.  No cap

1. only if you are an O2 mobile customer, otherwise it's more expensive
2. ADSL2+ V's ADSL, that's a no brainer, but as there is no direct comparison to the same service not strictly true regarding the ISP's QoS.
3. sure there is a cap:- " However if we feel that your activities are so excessive that other customers are detrimentally affected, we may give you a written warning (by email or otherwise). In extreme circumstances, if the levels of activity do not immediately decrease after the warning, we may terminate or suspend your Services." (lifted from the Fair Usage Pollicy) they just don't tell you what it is, and leave it open to variability at any time. (also note that they don't simply cut back on your P2P services if you go over the limit, the actualy kill your connection.
Quote from: topher1
...one thing that I notice from moving to O2 is their technical customer support.  An 0800 number 24/7, and a very competent team.  One night I phoned quite late and spoke to someone who I later discovered was a 2nd level team leader.  I got a fantastic response....

I have spoken to several representatives from PN, from technical support through to sales, and every one of them has had a good knowledge of the technical aspects of the buisness, be they lvl2 team leaders or probie's. 
Your reasons are flawed, as is your descision IMO.  I personaly won't be looking for another ISP any time soon. 
Tongue
Lurker
Grafter
Posts: 1,867
Registered: 23-10-2008

Re: People who move to another supplier

Quote from: MuppetGrinder
Your reasons are flawed, as is your descision IMO.  I personaly won't be looking for another ISP any time soon. 

All are potentially valid.
The OP states that they are *his* reasons for switching. The OP *does not* state that these reasons will apply to everybody.
If he says its cheaper, its because for him, it it cheaper.
If he says its faster, its because for him, it is faster.
If he says there is no cap, its because for the usage he will use, there is no cap.
OK, the latter is pure guesswork, but I could happily move to O2 and not worry about the cap, I rarely download more than 1GB per month at home, thus from my POV, I wouldn't have to worry about a cap - I presume the OP is in a similar situation.
It does add credence to my point that each person has different requirements, and therefore different ISPs will suit different people.
PN is not the answer for everybody, but for those it is the answer for, they work hard to be the best.
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,735
Thanks: 12
Registered: 02-02-2008

Re: People who move to another supplier

Quote from: James_G
PN is not the answer for everybody, but for those it is the answer for, they work hard to be the best.

Which is why I continue to recommend them where appropriate (not for the referral bonuses) even though at present my needs are best served by another ISP (blame BT's slow ADSL2+ rollout for that).
topher1
Newbie
Posts: 8
Registered: 22-01-2009

Re: People who move to another supplier

Wow,  I am surprised by the response.          Shocked
First to MuppetGrinder,  I am sorry, but I don't agree.   
1.  Cheaper - Yes you are right, I had to switch to O2 mobile (not a  big deal, they are slightly better than Onetel, my old supplier).  I find this a significant point.
2.  Faster -  With PN I did get about 6 Meg.  I now get 16 Meg with O2 (same wires!)
3.  No cap - I was unpleasantly surprised one month with PN having to pay more for my apparent excess use.  I am often away from the UK for more than a month and then use nothing at all.  I do not expect this to happen with O2, (let's hope I wont get a nasty surprise).  Thanks for pointing out the small print. 
I have experienced customer support from PN and O2.  I find O2 much better - note that it is my perception, I cant measure it, or prove it.  The PN ticket system was slow and unsatisfactory, for me;  I had to re-ask the same question a number of times.  O2 just solve the problem quickly on the spot (if they can) when you phone them (0800 nbr and 24/7). 
Secondly to James_G.  I agree 100% with you.  Your point of view is spot on.  It is what the customer wants that counts and I am getting it with O2.  MuppetGrinder is happy with PN, so that is fine for him.  He also appears to be much more technically competent than me, so he probably has less difficulties when he has problems. 
I think you may be all to young to remember this, but a long time ago Amstrad (Alan Sugar's company) brought out a PC.  It suffered with over heating problems.  All the technical journalists said it needed a fan like all the other PCs had.  Amstrad said it did not.  The heat dissipation design did not need a fan.  Sales dropped.  They put a fan in, sales rose again.  So what the customer wants is important, even if he is wrong.
By the way can someone translate OP and IMO.  I would like to know what they mean.  Regards,......Topher.
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James
Grafter
Posts: 21,036
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: People who move to another supplier

Original Poster & In My Opinion.
Not applicable

Re: People who move to another supplier

I occasionally have a glance around the web at different companies but I honestly couldn't leave PN as my connection is so good. I don't even think about 21CN very much because I don't need extra speed. As has been said, it really is horses for courses. Mobile contracts would be no good to me as I rarely use them.
Granted, I am not a demanding user, but I pay what I consider to be a reasonable sum for Homephone and broadband (with a bit of referral discount). In fact some years ago my telephone bills alone used to be as much as I am paying for telephone + broadband now.
Also, having spent two super days out visiting Plusnet the staff are not faceless folk and I can appreciate how hard they all work to give us a good service. 
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: People who move to another supplier

so OP how much does o2's broadband and mobile phone contract/pay as you go cost you a month?.
does it still work out cheaper than PN and a cheap phone contract/paygo off your own choice.
gd look with o2's dns severs. as when my sister was with them i was for ever connecting to here computer to change the dns to openDNS servers as half the web would not load. And not one snip of information on the website about the status of there network.
o2 have no staff members on there forums which i find gd here as i like to ask a question and get on with my day and find question answerd by PN staff and customers when iam not busy and have time to check. All without having to spend time with a phone attached to my ear.
but each to there own. i to know pN is not for every one.
its simple if you want to game,skype ect at any time of the day with out any network slow downs,exchange conntetion which last time i read o2 forums was a hot topic for most o2 users unlucky to be on an exchange with this problem then PN suits your needs.
if your not to botherd about your isps network preforming perfect 24/7 and uploading and downloading all day every day with risk of getting your  thoughput thottled for going over that unpublished usage limit then O2's right for you.
shall i go on to o2 forum now and start a simler theard and take bets on how long b4 it gets removed by o2.?
Community Veteran
Posts: 19,101
Thanks: 443
Fixes: 21
Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: People who move to another supplier

Hi ASBO,
I think James_G 's posts (replies #3 & #7) summed it up well.
Also, I think it's worth saying that a friend of mine uses O2 (he has an O2 mobile) so gets the cheaper rate, and on the few rare occasions he's had to phone the 0800 support, his experiences have been the same as the OP. He also had a faulty modem/router which was replaced promptly, without debate and at no cost whatsoever. He's also doesn't suffer from problems of exchange contention, which anyone could be unlucky enough to get, whether unbundled or not. I'm sorry your/your sister's experiences have not been so good.
It is very much horses for courses.
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,100
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: People who move to another supplier

Quote from: topher1
I left Plus Net a short time ago for three reasons
1.  Cheaper
2.  Faster
3.  No cap
.... Their 24/7 0800 xxx phone support is brilliant. 
Until Plus Net starts buying some ADSL kit and lowering prices they will gradually loose business.
Come on PlusNet.  Invest some money and get going.  ....

Ok, I am confused by your post. I take it you are saying if Plusnet improve on your current service with O2 then you come back to be a customer?
To take each point in turn.
1. Possible, possible but the only way to stop people jumping ship to the next ISP that is cheaper is to be either free or actually pay customers to stay.
2. Possible, but very subjective and dependent on a lot of issues and expectations.
3. Well that really depends on how you define the cap. If we are going for as much as feasibly possible within a 24 hour period without any speed restrictions then I can't see how that will work with point 1.
How can you improve on an O2s brilliant support? For that one I only can see another ISP being able to match it not better it. Of course I would expect all the customers of that ISP is get the same brilliant service, irrespective of the problem phoned in about. I would prefer to have a 100% good service rather than a 90% brilliant one as I am guessing the remaining 10% would be a lot of ranting to get things done.
Investing in infrastructure is a costly option. Now if the service as to be cheaper then you need more customers to cover those overheads. With more customers you need more investment in your internal structure and so the cycle continues till you go bust.