Info for customers with fibre faults.
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Re: Info for customers with fibre faults.
02-01-2016 2:47 PM
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Re: Info for customers with fibre faults.
03-01-2016 10:48 AM
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Quote from: ejs I hope I'm wrong, but I'm not really expecting that they'll be much the engineer can do.
Oh dear, nothing like being optimistic
As misterTony has mentioned, if the install was done by a "phone faults" engineer maybe something got missed or wasn't done right. One can at least hope that everything will be thoroughly checked including the Master Socket and the D-side pair and maybe there might be a better spare pair than can be tried.
That of course does not detract from the rest of your information, and should that simply turn out to be the cause, then this would be a total waste of an FTTC connection and in terms of US performance a degradation. There would be no way then this could be regarded as an "Upgrade" and if no improvement over ADSL2+ can be achieved then misterTony should be allowed to go back to ADSL2+ if desired at/with no penalty.
Re: Info for customers with fibre faults.
03-01-2016 11:50 AM
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EJS's insight makes plain that there does need to be some other considerations; hitherto speed degradation has been put down to cross-talk from the increasing up-take of FTTC - may be now we need to consider the influence of the AVOIDANCE of cross-talk with weak-remote-from-the-exchange ADSL services as well? It would be very interesting to assemble a body of data for analysis identifying exchange-cab distance, d-side distance and nominal download speeds.
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Re: Info for customers with fibre faults.
03-01-2016 12:50 PM
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Quote from: Townman I am guilty of having believed (accepted / understood?) that the only limiting factor for FTTC speeds is the premise's distance from the cab and the concurrency of FTTC services (cross-talk) - full stop nothing more.
Exactly my thoughts too before reading this. From what I read on other forums, it looks like there may be a limited number of 'PCB masks' that can be applied, but I don't know how many.
I agree that it would be very useful to get a feel for what impact these power reductions have on speed. I am not even sure how you would go about finding out. I wonder if there is any published information about how these masks are applied and under what circumstances, I will have a dig.
The impression I get from reading about this (I have only read very little so far) is that the masks reduce the power at certain frequencies (i.e. certain tone groups), rather than just reduce all frequencies equally. I assume this is because the lower VDSL frequencies may impact the ADSL more?
Either way, it is a bit of an eye opener as compared to my previous understanding.
More research required I think.
Re: Info for customers with fibre faults.
03-01-2016 1:15 PM
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However, the fly in the ointment here in misterTony's case is the fact that the US is virtually half the speed when on ADSL2+. This suggests that something else could be amiss.
Re: Info for customers with fibre faults.
03-01-2016 2:13 PM
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I don't think much can be drawn from comparing the FTTC speeds with what the speeds were on ADSL2+. For FTTC, there's the small US0 band using the lowest VDSL2 frequencies, then there's a downstream band, then an upstream band. With most of the upstream on higher frequencies than the downstream, it's not surprising for long lines to get pretty poor upstream speeds. Considering the upstream bandwidth and that the upstream attenuation reported was far less than the downstream attenuation, perhaps the upstream is only managing to make any use of that little US0 band on the lowest VDSL2 frequencies.
Quote from: misterTony High Low High Low
FTTC Range A (Clean) 21.6 14.7 2.1 1
FTTC Range B (Impacted) 15.9 6.5 2.1 0.8
With these estimates, it should have been obvious that FTTC should have been approached with caution, with the potential for it to be no better or even worse than ADSL2+.
Re: Info for customers with fibre faults.
03-01-2016 4:46 PM
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Quote from: Anotherone However, the fly in the ointment here in misterTony's case is the fact that the US is virtually half the speed when on ADSL2+. This suggests that something else could be amiss.
Thanks for all the comments on this which makes for interesting reading.
I realise that after the engineer visit on Tuesday, that there's a possibility that nothing may change. I would have to accept that and take the contentious issue of how this can be considred an 'upgrade' up with PN (something they seem to ignore and reject atm). However I do hold on to the slightest hope that something may not have been done correctly during the original install and that a fresh set of eyes may be able to eek a little more out of my connection. Time will tell either way.
Thanks again folks 🙂
Re: Info for customers with fibre faults.
03-01-2016 5:02 PM
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Quote from: Townman EJS's insight makes plain that there does need to be some other considerations; hitherto speed degradation has been put down to cross-talk from the increasing up-take of FTTC - may be now we need to consider the influence of the AVOIDANCE of cross-talk with weak-remote-from-the-exchange ADSL services as well? It would be very interesting to assemble a body of data for analysis identifying exchange-cab distance, d-side distance and nominal download speeds.
If that's what's in play here, would that mean that all end users served by that cabinet would be limited to "impacted" speeds? It sounds to me that it should be something that's accounted for in the "clean" estimates if it's an unavoidable effect of the line lengths.
Re: Info for customers with fibre faults.
03-01-2016 5:10 PM
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Quote from: ejs ...... perhaps the upstream is only managing to make any use of that little US0 band on the lowest VDSL2 frequencies.
But, that US0 band uses the same tones as ADSL/ADSL2+ (give or take a tone) so at the moment I'm not seeing why the US would be so badly affected.
Re: Info for customers with fibre faults.
03-01-2016 5:18 PM
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Quote from: aesmith If that's what's in play here, would that mean that all end users served by that cabinet would be limited to "impacted" speeds?
I am not sure. But I would hope that 'impacted' would be reserved for issues that relate to something other than power cut back being applied to the lines.
Re: Info for customers with fibre faults.
03-01-2016 5:31 PM
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Re: Info for customers with fibre faults.
03-01-2016 7:23 PM
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Re: Info for customers with fibre faults.
03-01-2016 7:55 PM
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Quote from: aesmith It's possible that the references to the impacted speeds was just Plusnet trying to opt out of doing anything at all, after all their original explanation about OR modem and "line tuning" was complete nonsense.
Actually what they said is kind of correct, it's just the wording could be better.
Re: Info for customers with fibre faults.
03-01-2016 8:02 PM
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Re: Info for customers with fibre faults.
03-01-2016 8:05 PM
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