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IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here

Puck
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Re: IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here

Quote from: Rev
I'm on the one 146.199.xx.xxx ones.
It reports on some checkers as being UK, but most as California.  Wish I could get it to change now, my online banking will not work now Sad

Hello Rev,
                    Just registered for the Community forum and this is my first post/reply. Not very 'forum' savvy.
  I decided to check my IP address after a catching a radio news cast about the hacking of online cameras/monitors. I was also concerned when I initially came up with a location in California. I am not very techie and am a bit paranoid about on line security etc. so was a bit spooked. Again I found , after trying a couple of other IP sites, that they were locating me in Sheffield UK . I have not so far had any problem accessing online banking etc. I am though a bit concerned about the consequences of having an IP address located outside the UK for credit referencing. I actually found a link to the Plusnet forums via a link to a post I found on a search engine otherwise I would have been none the wiser. I am a Plusnet user and have been fairly happy with the service but it is a bit odd that Plusnet were not aware or did not inform their customers of this possible IP problem.
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Re: IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here

@'Puck' -
                 
The thing is, that this is unlikely to be a Plusnet problem !
The problem is that the companies that use location based security/tracking, often use published lists of where blocks of IP addresses have been allocated around the world.  In the past, those blocks of IP addresses didn't change very much, and therefore the companies didn't fetch an updated list very frequently (say every six months).  In recent years, as the available IPv4 addresses has diminished, and smaller address blocks are more frequently reallocated, so the need to maintain up to date address lists becomes more important.  The source of these address lists should be up to date (within a few days of IP addresses changing),  but if the companies that then use those lists don't download an update (say weekly) then problems like those reported in this topic are going to happen.
For what it's worth, I use features on my home router/firewall that makes use of these IP lists, for blocking connections from countries that I choose to filter, and also IP blacklists to block connections from known addresses that a considered to be a security risk.  To keep my firewall up to date, I automatically download these address lists every night.
So if I can do it, I don't see why these companies (such as the National Lottery) can't do the same !  Crazy
Rev
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Re: IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here

Hi Puck,
Being new to plus net I've decided to grab a fixed IP to get around the problem at the moment.  I wonder if I can convince PN to refund it? Smiley
There is a good site http://www.iplocation.net which shows a basic lookup of where the ip geo location is resolving to - according to a number of companies.  I kept getting ip2location showing as the usa.
I don't see any real security concerns from being on these mis-located ip's, but they are a real annoyance at times.  The biggest problem is the inconsistency - some bits work, other bits do not.
Thanks
Rev
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Re: IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here

Quote from: mikko
My ip address is reported as 146.199.49.66 and the national lottery site won't let me log in, see attached screen cap.

I'm unable to replicate this. I've just logged in using my smartphone connected to a Plusnet line assigned the IP 146.199.77.153 (see attached, noting the balance at the upper-right).
Quote from: jab1
As a point of interest, Speedtest.net thinks I'm with Infonet (IP146.199.72.154)

Not unusual because that's the company/address the IP's are registered to with ARIN. ARIN are the registry for US and Canadian IP's so it's not easy (if it's even possible) to have the block re-assigned to an address in the UK. You'll note that we're the point of contact though. The easiest thing for us to do (if it was possible), would be to have these IP's transferred over to RIPE who are the equivalent registry for the UK. Unfortunately, no process exists to do this, although a working group has been pushing for one for some time now.
Quote from: Rev
Today I tried to use Paypal, but I was unable to pay as the geo-location of my IP resolves to California Sad

How/where did you use it? I have just logged into my PayPal account via a web browser using one of these IP's and sent some money to somebody else without any problems (again, see attached).
Quote
Is there anyway I can fix this?  My google account is reporting the non-UK logins as unusual activity.

Again, can you provide any further information? I've just logged into my GMail account via a browser using one of these IP's and I've not received any notices about unusual activity (having said that, I do use two factor authentication which is probably why).
Quote from: NorthEasterner
Are the servers located in the US?

Customers assigned these IP's are routed/geolocated no differently to those assigned an IP outside of 146.199.0.0/16 or 146.200.0.0/16 ranges. You might end up on a particular gateway but they all live in the same London data centres as our others. The problem is a combination of what I've mentioned above and sites using stale/mistaken geo-location data.
Quote from: Rev
Wish I could get it to change now, my online banking will not work now Sad

Which bank's that then? I've tried the HSBC and Halifax apps and they both work for me.

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AArdvark
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Re: IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here

[Long post warning]  Smiley
This problem is now affecting NowTV.
I was using their NowTV App on a Samsung Tablet and it was working perfectly.
It stopped working and was giving a 0x20000 error (Temporary streaming error).
I have been chasing this problem for weeks with SKY and even got onto the Beta Programme for the new Android 5.0 version of the App.
No one at SKY was able to resolve this until Today !!!
I was advised of the 146.199.xxx.xxx problem.
This problem needs to be flaggged up much more visibly as it is wasting lots of peoples time (Other Companies & PlusNet Customers (More Important)).
I am a new Plusnet customer, of 2 months or so, and this is not very impressive.
Once advised by SKY(!!!Huh Shock Horror), I am luckily Techie enough to fix the problem in seconds.
I kept bouncing the PPP session until I got an address that was not in the 146.199.xxx.xxx range, an IP Address that was looking up as a UK IP. (146.90.xxx.xxx).
Most users would have to re-boot if they could not get to reset the PPP session.
Repeated re-boots/re-syncs would then ensure that DLM kicked in pushing the line speed/sync down.
(NOT GOOD !!!)
I am now wondering when this will impact something more important such as Bank access.
I do not expect the address to change too often as I have not been getting re-syncs on my line unless initiated by me. (Yet!!!)
Although, I am noticing the gradual degradation of the quality of the Broadband line I have in terms of SNRM & Max Attainable.
In 60+ days my SNRM(DS) is now down to 5 from 14 & Max Attainable down from 114 Mb/s to 76 Mb/s. Plus lots of Crosstalk visibly bouncing the SNRM down. ['Staircase' step changes]
If it continues in this vein i will expect line re-syncs or at least the PPP session to bounce and hence the possibility of address changes without any notice.
Can I suggest that a sticky is posted to advise NowTV users that '0x20000 (Temporary Streaming Error)' may be caused by your IP address being detected as non-UK.
Currently this issue is not known to the 1st line Support at SKY and will be causing some people problems.
I have also asked SKY to push this knowledge further out BUT it is NOT really a SKY problem is it, as UK IP Addresses work which is all SKY advise will work.
(SKY Services are Geolocation aware and limit access from outside the specific Geographic region.)


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Re: IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here

Quote from: AArdvark
This problem is now affecting NowTV.
I was using their NowTV App on a Samsung Tablet and it was working perfectly.
It stopped working and was giving a 0x20000 error (Temporary streaming error).

Did this problem only affect the app? i.e. was access via a web browser still possible? I've tried from a 146.199.0.0/16 IP using a web browser and I can stream movie content fine as can be evidenced by the Wolf of Wall Street screengrab attached.
Sadly I can't try using a smart device because the only devices I have access to at the moment are running Lollipop which as you've alluded to, isn't yet supported. I vaguely remember this happening last time though (the app continuing to present problems after the main site was sorted).
Quote from: AArdvark
I have been chasing this problem for weeks with SKY and even got onto the Beta Programme for the new Android 5.0 version of the App. No one at SKY was able to resolve this until Today !!!

If the problem is still evident then it hasn't been resolved. Sky need to be treating these IP's as UK-based.
Quote from: AArdvark
This problem needs to be flaggged up much more visibly as it is wasting lots of peoples time.

How would you suggest this is done? The symptoms are so widely varying that it's not simple to provide a simple explanation/heads-up. Our support centre *are* aware of the newly introduced IP's, and of the teething problems that may arise.
Quote from: AArdvark
Once advised by SKY(!!!Huh Shock Horror), I am luckily Techie enough to fix the problem in seconds.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I can't see any evidence that you contacted us at any point to help resolve the problem? Or are you having a dig at Sky's reputation for technical support? Cheesy
Quote from: AArdvark
I am now wondering when this will impact something more important such as Bank access.

It could affect a number of things. This is the second large block of IP's we've introduced that have been subject to geo-location issues. We applied learning from the first batch to 'warm' these IP's before use, but it looks like we've still a way to go before the process is as watertight as it can be.
As I've tried to explain, the circumstances surrounding these problems is not easily overcome.
Quote from: AArdvark
Can I suggest that a sticky is posted to advise NowTV users that '0x20000 (Temporary Streaming Error)' may be caused by your IP address being detected as non-UK.

I'm of the opinion that this post should suffice, we don't need more than one sticky on the same subject.
Quote from: AArdvark
Currently this issue is not known to the 1st line Support at SKY and will be causing some people problems.

In which case, perhaps they could update their geo-location data? Wink
Quote from: AArdvark
I have also asked SKY to push this knowledge further out BUT it is NOT really a SKY problem is it...

Yes, it is Sky who need to make changes/update their geo-location data. If you want to point them towards this post or PM me the details of somebody I can get in touch with then feel free. Having said that, it's my understanding we've already been in touch with them. Regardless, we'll try and reach out to them again.
Quote from: AArdvark
...as UK IP Addresses work which is all SKY advise will work.

In case you're not already aware, it's probably worth me mentioning that the UK registry for IP assignment has pretty much entirely exhausted/allocated all of it's IPv4 address space.
Quote from: AArdvark
(SKY Services are Geolocation aware and limit access from outside the specific Geographic region.)

Not aware enough it would seem? Wink
AFAIK, Sky use Neustar for geolocation, and Neustar see these IP's as being based in the UK Huh
Don't get me wrong, I'm not absolving Plusnet of all blame. It is after all, our decision to use these ARIN IP's in the first place. Ultimately though, the last piece of this particular jigsaw is for Sky to make some alterations at their side.

Bob Pullen
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Superuser
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Re: IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here

Quote
I am now wondering when this will impact something more important such as Bank access.
Does any bank restrict access from Non-Uk IP's ? I've accesed my accounts from various non uk IP's without any problems.
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Re: IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here

It would seem so.

Bob Pullen
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Superuser
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Re: IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here

Yes, I saw that, but I can't believe any of the banks would do it. There's so many people these days who spend significant periods out of the UK and need to manage their accounts.
Any bank not allowing access from abroad would lose customers, I'm sure.
AArdvark
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Re: IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here

I can only assume you are having a 'Bad' day due to the encyclopedic yet less than useful answer.  Smiley
This is particularly moot as I have solved my problem BUT Plusnet have not solved theirs.
Read: you will still get customers reporting errors which you could have solved easier and sooner. IMO.
My post was a heads-up to other Plusnet customers who may also be NowTV users with the same problem.
It was also there for Plusnet to take notice of if so inclined.
Your response is more focused on blaming someone for a problem, which may make you feel better, but encompasses a number of mis-understandings and assumptions.
At the end of the day the focus is surely to solve the problem and not to point fingers, no matter how valid or not the arguments may be.
To clarify the mis-understandings and assumptions read on:-
Quote
This problem is now affecting NowTV.
I was using their NowTV App on a Samsung Tablet and it was working perfectly.
It stopped working and was giving a 0x20000 error (Temporary streaming error).
Quote
Did this problem only affect the app? i.e. was access via a web browser still possible? I've tried from a 146.199.0.0/16 IP using a web browser and I can stream movie content fine as can be evidenced by the Wolf of Wall Street screengrab attached.
Sadly I can't try using a smart device because the only devices I have access to at the moment are running Lollipop which as you've alluded to, isn't yet supported. I vaguely remember this happening last time though (the app continuing to present problems after the main site was sorted).

(1.)
To clarify, the problem only affected the NowTV app on the Tablet, on the NowTV Box or running the PC app it worked correctly.
Also it worked correctly when Chromecasting was initiated from the Tablet.
All other Internet access was working with no error.
The same film or TV program could be played with no issues on any device I had registered other than the NowTV App on the Samsung Tablet.
The fact that you tried 'an' address and it worked does not prove any thing nor prove I am lying or mistaken.
Specifically I was on 146.199.117.182.
When looking up the address on http://www.iplocation.net/ as advised by SKY, I see the address resolves to a mix of locations (El segundo, California USA or Sheffield UK)
When bouncing PPP to get another IP addrress I got 2 other IP addresses (Not noted) that also did not return UK only addresses.
Eventually I got 146.90.235.247 which did resolve to a UK IP Addresses (Sheffield or London)
Purely based on my experience alone there are 3 addresses in the Range 146.199.xxx.xxx that do not resolve to a UK address only.
I would expect that there are more BUT can only vouch for 3.
Quote
I have been chasing this problem for weeks with SKY and even got onto the Beta Programme for the new Android 5.0 version of the App. No one at SKY was able to resolve this until Today !!!
Quote
If the problem is still evident then it hasn't been resolved. Sky need to be treating these IP's as UK-based.


Problem is resolved for me, all I can vouch for.
Re: Sky need to be treating these IP's as UK-based, see (1.)
Quote
This problem needs to be flaggged up much more visibly as it is wasting lots of peoples time.
Quote
How would you suggest this is done? The symptoms are so widely varying that it's not simple to provide a simple explanation/heads-up. Our support centre *are* aware of the newly introduced IP's, and of the teething problems that may arise.


Quote
Once advised by SKY(!!!Huh Shock Horror), I am luckily Techie enough to fix the problem in seconds.
Quote
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I can't see any evidence that you contacted us at any point to help resolve the problem? Or are you having a dig at Sky's reputation for technical support? Cheesy


To answer these both together in reverse order:
[Part 1]
I cannot be expected to report an error with a SKY app to Plusnet ?
There is nothing to tell me this is related to Plusnet in any way.
How exactly do I find out this is a Plusnet related problem if the information is not to be found.
The only error is 0x20000 (Temporary Streaming Error) which is NOT the real error, as I argued to SKY and ultimately found to be true.
[Part 2]
You ask "How would you suggest this is done?"  (See request for sticky and your response, later down this missive.)
The explanation\heads-up is not simple, agreed but try something even if it is mostly generalised as long as the likely affected customers have a chance of seeing it.
You imply with your answer that some symptoms are known, so simplify the informaton and list what you can in a sticky aimed at the known Apps that are affected.
Point the rest to somewhere to get more information.
The alternative is you hope that the customers work out it is related to non-UK IP addresses and look in 'Your Feedback' on page 6 of a post called 'IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here'.
Finally, I am a SKY Customer now (NowTV) and have been a SKY Customer for their Broadband when they took over BE/O2.
I have extensive experience of SKY Support and can truthfully comment on their quaility.
The lack of quality of SKY Frontline Support is well known and as such getting the solution to this problem from SKY is a suprise based on past and current experience.
The answer came about because I was on the Beta Programme for the new Android 5.0 version of the NowTV App.
The Beta team escalated the problem and solved the issue Not Frontline support who are still to come back to me from multiple calls & Live Chats.
If I am making a dig it is a very gentle one at that.
You are being concerned for another Support Group from another Vendor, Well Done but not needed at all, as they are as bad as the mythology about SKY.
Finally, I have worked in the past, for many years on a IT Support Desk, at the sharp end, also running a multi-location Helpdesk for Thousands of Customers across thousands of Products.
I know very well the joys and pains of the job and the 'many' ways to respond to issues from customers.
Consequently, your response was desparately in need of a reply.
Quote
I am now wondering when this will impact something more important such as Bank access.
Quote
It could affect a number of things. This is the second large block of IP's we've introduced that have been subject to geo-location issues. We applied learning from the first batch to 'warm' these IP's before use, but it looks like we've still a way to go before the process is as watertight as it can be.
As I've tried to explain, the circumstances surrounding these problems is not easily overcome.


Fine, the problem is a hard one that is true, by your comments, but I am a customer and it is not 'My Fault' either.
I need a hint, clue, something to relate the issue to, to help solve the problem.
What I do not need is attitude or a running critique of the post based on your assumptions about SKY or me.
Quote
Can I suggest that a sticky is posted to advise NowTV users that '0x20000 (Temporary Streaming Error)' may be caused by your IP address being detected as non-UK.
Quote
I'm of the opinion that this post should suffice, we don't need more than one sticky on the same subject.


What sticky are you refering to that anyone could reasonable find in searching for a problem about NowTV?
Your opinion of SKY or me more or less covers the assumptions in the rest of your reply which much to my surprise causes me to defend SKY who are not at issue for once.
As i have stated there are still IP Addresses that are not looking up as UK or UK Only, I or SKY cannot change that.
I think the problem is back in your court but not mine as my problem is solved for now. Wink
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Re: IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here

Quote from: AArdvark
I can only assume you are having a 'Bad' day due to the encyclopedic yet less than useful answer.  Smiley

Not at all, I can only assume you've misinterpreted some of my response. i was doing my best to be as helpful and concise as possible, apologies if it didn't come across that way.
Quote from: AArdvark
This is particularly moot as I have solved my problem BUT Plusnet have not solved theirs.

The problem is simply the fact that we are allocating IP addresses to customers that Sky consider to be US-located when they're not.
Quote from: AArdvark
Read: you will still get customers reporting errors which you could have solved easier and sooner. IMO.

How? We've already made best efforts to contact Sky and their geolocation provider to ensure that they're identifying these IP's correctly. In fact, their geo-location provider are doing exactly this, so I'm unsure why their app should behave any differently to their main web application.
Thanks for the clarification regarding the questions I asked.
Quote from: AArdvark
The fact that you tried 'an' address and it worked does not prove any thing nor prove I am lying or mistaken.

It's fairly evident based on reports in this thread, the outcome of the last IP block we introduced and the origin of the IP's themselves that these issues affect addresses in the 146.199.0.0/16 subnet. You yourself have confirmed what I found myself i.e. that the web application is not subject to the same problem. I will try from a non-Lollipop smart device when I'm in the office tomorrow. As mentioned though, we're attempting to contact Sky again regardless.
Quote from: AArdvark
When looking up the address on http://www.iplocation.net/ as advised by SKY, I see the address resolves to a mix of locations (El segundo, California USA or Sheffield UK)

Which is odd advice because to my knowledge, that's not the geo-location service they use Huh
Quote from: AArdvark
Purely based on my experience alone there are 3 addresses in the Range 146.199.xxx.xxx that do not resolve to a UK address only.
I would expect that there are more BUT can only vouch for 3.

I expect the entire 146.199.0.0/16 range is affected.
Quote from: AArdvark
As i have stated there are still IP Addresses that are not looking up as UK or UK Only, I or SKY cannot change that.

You can't, Sky can.
Quote from: AArdvark
I think the problem is back in your court but not mine as my problem is solved for now. Wink

It is in both ours and Sky's court. It's in our interests to ensure that Sky update their geo-location systems and the apps that depend on them so our customers cease to encounter issues like these.

Bob Pullen
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Community Gaffer
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Re: IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here

Just to provide an update, Sky have been in touch with me and we're looking at what can be done about the problems streaming Now TV from mobile devices.
Quote from: Bob
I will try from a non-Lollipop smart device when I'm in the office tomorrow.

I gave this a go from a device running 4.4.4 but my attempts were thwarted again because the app will not work on a rooted device!
I'll keep people updated as things develop...

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Rev
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Re: IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here

Quote from: Bob
How/where did you use it? I have just logged into my PayPal account via a web browser using one of these IP's and sent some money to somebody else without any problems (again, see attached).

It happens with services using PayPal, I've not tested it user to user. For example, betting companies (might have been sky bet).  The error is generated directly on PayPal, though I don't know if PayPal is informed via a callback of the location from the provider.
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Re: IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here

There's an update due to drop for IP2Location any day now which some gambling sites etc. may use. That's the last of the large geo-location providers I'm aware of though. We're continuing to work on the Now TV mobile app issue.

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ListerofSmeg
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Re: IP addresses not UK - Can customers please report any problems here

From this post: http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,132721.160.html
I was informed to mention that after i ran http://usertools.plus.net/@gateway/ I got: Sorry, records show your IP address is not from the Plusnet brand and as such, we cannot detect your gateway