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I WAS very happy

Roberto0151
Grafter
Posts: 241
Registered: ‎18-05-2010

I WAS very happy

Now I'm just puzzled.
I joined Plusnet from Tiscali/TT towards the end of February. The switchover went very well and the speeds were at least as good as I could have expected.
Then, after about a month,  the download speeds started to become a little less reliable but still acceptable and an improvement on the 8 to 900 kbps I had been getting from T/TT.
During  April things went a little bit haywire and in the last week or so the download speeds have been little more than the up speeds.
These are the data I have from the BT speedtester:
Date                                                                                    28/2                            14/04                  19/05                  23/05
Max achievable speed                                                        2000                              1000                    2000                      500

Download speed in test                                                1406                                383                      1307                      452

Acceptable range                                                            400 - 2000                      200 - 1000            400 - 2000            50 - 500

DSL connection rates  Down/Up                                1824/448                            1184/448              1888/448              1696/448

IP profile                                                                        1500                                  1000                      1500                    500
( all figs. in Kbps )

This is a link to a screenshot of a graph of the results of a number of ThinkBroadband speed tests since just after I joined PN.
    http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/marcusb9/ScreenCap29510?authkey=Gv1sRgCLHO8KjB9KH01gE#5476706134536298...

And these are my router stats today:
Uptime: 0 days, 7:42:09
DSL Type: G.992.1 annex A
Bandwidth (Up/Down) [kbps/kbps]: 448 / 896
Data Transferred (Sent/Received) [kB/kB]: 0.00 / 0.00
Output Power (Up/Down) [dBm]: 11.5 / 15.5
Line Attenuation (Up/Down) [dB]: 31.5 / 63.5
SN Margin (Up/Down) [dB]: 10.0 / 12.0
Vendor ID (Local/Remote): TMMB / ALCB
Loss of Framing (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Signal (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Power (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
Loss of Link (Remote): 0
Error Seconds (Local/Remote): 0 / 0
FEC Errors (Up/Down): 22 / 2,604
CRC Errors (Up/Down): 22 / 257
HEC Errors (Up/Down): 15 / 150
I don't know whether all the above might help someone more tech savvy than myself to make sense of what is happening,  but I must admit it might as well be in hieroglyphics as far as I am concerned.


Reading today in another thread I noticed that Mand wrote that it might help to reboot for a short period early in the day, and I got the impression that
it might be assumed that both computer and router would be switched on 24/7.  Being a good little electricity saver,  my  practice is to switch off the router overnight and to hibernate the computer during the day when not in use, which seems reasonable for domestic use.
  Is this a bad idea as far as speed is concerned?

Sorry about this long rant,  but I'm feeling less than happy at the moment and am looking for some help in interpreting what is happening.
24 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,987
Thanks: 5
Fixes: 3
Registered: ‎01-08-2007

Re: I WAS very happy

hi roberto, welcome to the forums....
your stats show that you have a very long line, and so your speeds will be reduced.  To be honest with your attenuation of 63.5 ( which may be untrue, as some routers cannot display more than this), on ADSL you should be getting syncs around 1200-1500, which equates to around 1000 throughput in reals terms.  On ADSL2, you may squeeze a little more out.  Your SNR is raised at 12dB, so if this reduced you may get a little more.  I don't want to sound negative, but being realistic this is best case.  however, we should rule out wiring issues.  Can you post the same stats, connected to the Master Socket TEST socket, which you can get at, by removing the front half of the master socket. ( Assuming you have a new style Master socket).
Post these stats and we can see where we stand.
Roberto0151
Grafter
Posts: 241
Registered: ‎18-05-2010

Re: I WAS very happy

Hello Penfold, thanks for your reply.
Regrettably, the test socket is a problem.  Some time ago I fitted  a BT iPlate and the long screws supplied with it have jammed the faceplate which can't now be removed without risking breaking up the whole unit. (A friendly electrician had a go but didn't want to go further in case he brought down BT on us.)
I do have a fairly long line. I don't know whether  or not it  goes cross country, but if it follows the road I guess it must be at least 2.1/2 miles, perhaps a bit more.
I think that if I could be sure of a reliable speed of around 1000 I should be reasonably content - at least I could be fairly sure of being able to stream internet radio, which isn't always easy at present.
Roberto0151
Grafter
Posts: 241
Registered: ‎18-05-2010

Re: I WAS very happy

Here's an update.
I'm getting around 700 Kbps download speed today. And Pingtest .net still says that my connection is very good with zero packet loss, 39 ms ping and 2 ms jitter.
I guess we must be grateful for small mercies. Smiley
(I left my router switched on all last night - I wonder if that might have any connection with the improvement?)
pierre_pierre
Grafter
Posts: 19,757
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: I WAS very happy

yes, you should try and leave it on for the first ten days so that BT can assess the line,  it is said that a single modem disconnect in the morning helps.
after the ten days if you turn the router off overnight you should make sure that you turn it on between the hours of say 8 an 3 pm,  (In the winter 1 hour after sunrise to one hour before)

Just been back and read your first post.  Sometimes, It happened to me once, you get bumped by BT and that can take up to 3 days to get back,
Roberto0151
Grafter
Posts: 241
Registered: ‎18-05-2010

Re: I WAS very happy

Thanks Pierre for the helpful comments.
Usually I've been turning the router on abt. 7.30 am and off abt.  9.30 pm, but I'll leave it on 24/7 for a while and see what that brings forth.
P.s. Congrats on being retired - I've been at "leisure" for over 20 years now. Never had to work so hard in my  life.    Grin
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,720
Thanks: 934
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Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: I WAS very happy

Turning on at 7:30 am is rather earlier than recommended, so if you are using it early morning leaving it on all the time is the better option. A reboot once a day between 10am and 3pm wouldn't do any harm and might help.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Roberto0151
Grafter
Posts: 241
Registered: ‎18-05-2010

Re: I WAS very happy

I'm not 100 % clear on your advice Jelv.
When you say "reboot" I assume that refers to the computer. Does this imply that the computer as well as the router should be on all the time, or am I showing my ignorance and switching the router off and on is also described as rebooting?
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,720
Thanks: 934
Fixes: 10
Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: I WAS very happy

I was referring to the router. How much you turn your PC off/on will not make a jot of difference to your connection. That's the beauty of a router - it isolates what happens inside from affecting the connection.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
Roberto0151
Grafter
Posts: 241
Registered: ‎18-05-2010

Re: I WAS very happy

Thanks    Smiley
pierre_pierre
Grafter
Posts: 19,757
Registered: ‎30-07-2007

Re: I WAS very happy

and by reboot the router, that does not mean turn the power off, from the router front page there should be a control button to disconnect, which then changes to connect, what type of router have you got?
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,720
Thanks: 934
Fixes: 10
Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: I WAS very happy

No Peter - not in this case. The point of the soft disconnect/reconnect via the router interface is that it does not drop sync with the exchange and just refreshes the connection to Plusnet (that's why it is the best way to refresh your Plusnet connection profile or 'gateway hop'). To educate the DLM at the exchange and get the best sync rate you need to do a full disconnect/reconnect and a reboot is the best way to do that (Netgear routers do have a reboot button on the diagnostics page).
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
whistler
Grafter
Posts: 143
Registered: ‎30-12-2009

Re: I WAS very happy

This whole business of how (apparantly) BT monitor line quality and when and how often we should or shouldn't reboot our routers has had me perplexed ever since I first came accross it on plusnet.
Can someone riddle me this please: The whole TCP/IP thing works on retransmitting packets that fail to reach EACH hop of their destination intact for whatever reason. If BT monitored the proportion of retransmits between my router and their exchange they'd have a completely accurate indication of line quality.  Why on earth do they (BT) use a disconnection (or not) to "determine" (i.e. guess) whether there's a problem (or not) with line quality.
Community Veteran
Posts: 26,720
Thanks: 934
Fixes: 10
Registered: ‎10-04-2007

Re: I WAS very happy

Packets can be dropped because either end is trying to shove data down the line faster than the line or exchange or link from exchange to Plusnet can handle; so a dropped packet doesn't mean there is something wrong with the line.
If the inbuilt checking in TCP detects an error (eg CRC check) this gets logged and if there are too many the exchange will force a resync at a lower speed to try to get rid of the errors. Likewise if the noise margin falls too low a resync back to the target noise margin is forced which will also give a lower sync speed.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
whistler
Grafter
Posts: 143
Registered: ‎30-12-2009

Re: I WAS very happy


Hi Jelv - thanks for your reply.
Not sure it's what you intended but you've made my point for me.
Quote from: jelv
Packets can be dropped because either end is trying to shove data down the line faster than the line or exchange or link from exchange to Plusnet can handle; so a dropped packet doesn't mean there is something wrong with the line.

Yes it does - it means the line is not fast enough for the data rate - therefore you'd respond by slowing down the data rate - my point exactly.
Quote from: jelv
If the inbuilt checking in TCP detects an error (eg CRC check) this gets logged and if there are too many the exchange will force a resync at a lower speed to try to get rid of the errors. Likewise if the noise margin falls too low a resync back to the target noise margin is forced which will also give a lower sync speed.

Again - exactly my point - so you agree that the exchange can determine whether or not to slow down (or even speed up) the line dependant on errors/re-trans. So presumably you agree that basing line speed on the totally arbitrary and irrelevant fact of whether I turn my router on or off is misconceived.