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Good start to what I know will be problems ahead

Superuser
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Registered: 22-08-2007

Good start to what I know will be problems ahead

Just a note of thanks to Glen on business support.
Phoned up on Thursday last to order a new business line for a client with what I know is going to be a difficult - not straight forward semi-rural - provision, with BTOR fibre capacity slipping week by week.  Got off to a really good start, gave Glen the post code and he knew more or less exactly where the place was straight away.  It's not too far from what used to be my pub, where incidentally he'd worked years ago.  Seems that PN have a number of staff from North Cheshire (Chris P)?
Friendly service all they way, Ts&Cs clearly explained, down to the detail of included calls only last an hour and full details of the new charging structure for 0844, 09 and 118 calls from 1st July - so no surprises.  Did make me wonder if the on-line sign-up journey is as good?
Will add to this feedback as the BTOR journey unfolds.
Kevin
62 REPLIES
catelliott
Grafter
Posts: 242
Registered: 05-02-2015

Re: Good start to what I know will be problems ahead

Hiya Kevin,
Can you PM me the account username please so I can send your thanks to the correct "Glen" (surprisingly we have more than one in Biz!) Cheesy
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 12,608
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Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Good start to what I know will be problems ahead

@CRT,
Well I did say that I expected problems - or at least more feed back.  See ticket 104767363
This is a NEW LINE provide.  Got this email last night...
Quote
Telephone number for ADSL activation:
Thank you for choosing Plusnet as your broadband ADSL partner.
When processing your order for Unlimited Business Broadband and phone
(24 Month Contract) from Plusnet, we highlighted some details that need
to be updated before we can continue. Please contact our friendly
Customer Support team on 0800 432 0200 or 0345 140 0200 to update the
following information:
* Telephone number for ADSL connection

Feedback...
1. Given this is a new line, then number is not known by the subscriber for sure until installation forecast for 17/06.
2. PlusNET will know this information before the subscriber - in order to tell the subscriber.
3. Why introduce delay into the process by asking the subscriber to tell PlusNET information it already has / will have prior to the subscriber knowing said information?
4. I thought the plan here was to hold off the ADSL order in anticipation that by the time this new line is installed, the additional fibre capacity will have been made available.
Looking at the link included in the above email, I found this...
Quote
We've found a problem with your account. Please note the following details:
An internal error has occurred that we are currently trying to fix

Which I take to be related?
No big issue here for me, but if my client had received this communication I'm sure they will have been confused.  I suggest that there is room for improvement here.
Kevin
KatC
Grafter
Posts: 60
Registered: 16-02-2015

Re: Good start to what I know will be problems ahead

Hi Kevin,
I can see how the notification has led to some confusion for you. Not to worry, I have requested a member of our business team to take a look into this for you and update you via the member center.
Superuser
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Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Good start to what I know will be problems ahead

Hi Kat,
Thank you ... more feedback...
Received a generic email advising that the phone order had been cancelled and to contact support if I want to re-order.
Quote
We can confirm that your order for Business Phone has now been cancelled.
Should you wish to sign up for our Business Phone service in the future, you can do so though our website -
http://portal.plus.net/upgrade_process.html

On checking the ticket, the claim is that the order was placed at the wrong property ...
Quote
This didn't include the address of The Barn and I can only apologise on behalf of my colleague for this error.
NSP Order: OR0000004657377
I have re-placed the correct type of order to provide service to The Barn, and a survey officer will be visiting site to have a look at the barn location.

Inspection of the very first post on the ticket shows clearly that the agent did use the full address, so this is not correct.  Though the order has been replaced, no corresponding email has been generated.
I am starting to understand more clearly the confusion seen by other customers around here.  An "administrative" cancelation has generated a very clear cancelation email and the matching "administrative" reorder can only be discerned by reference to the now very well hidden ticket system.  Being an old lag around here, I know the back doors and where the answers can be found, but for new residential customers, that simply is not the case.
We've been given to understand that the order journey has been improved / is being delivered by the "new" system.  If that is the case, then I suggest (humbly) that there is still work to be done.  For "administrative" changes, there should be no visibility to the user of the cancelation / reorder or complete visibility - not half and half leaving the wrong impression.
I guess that the cancelation is required to inform the user (obtusely) that the previously committed appointment is not now cancelled... though it is frustrating that no appointment is presently available for the survey.
I did expect a challenging journey, but challenged due to BTw / BTOR not PlusNet's email communications.  Though I'm somewhat teased off that CSC is still trying to contact the business' MD and no me as has been clearly requested, all is I believe in hand.  The purpose of this additional feedback is to inform the backend system's people that they need to do better.
Kevin
Plusnet Help Team
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Registered: 25-03-2015

Re: Good start to what I know will be problems ahead

Hi Kevin, I've checked over the order and I can confirm the most recent update is correct.
Although the initial comment on the ticket included the full address, the agent who placed your order did not include 'The Barn' on the actual order.
I think the reason you've not received further system notification regarding a new order is because the new order hasn't reached a committed state, but I believe this should kick out a notification once it does reach a committed state.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Harry Beesley
 Plusnet Help Team
Superuser
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Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Good start to what I know will be problems ahead

Harry,
Thank you for the confirmation; as I said I'm sure all is fine. The point of the last feedback is that the email communication causes confusion.  At best it ought to be clear that the order was cancelled AND reordered.  The fact that a confirmation state has not been reached does not preclude clear communication.
As for the address being wrong, are you suggesting that feedback to the otherwise excellent agent is required when placing an order for a building (of any type not being a distinct address) not in BT's database?
Kevin
Plusnet Help Team
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Registered: 25-03-2015

Re: Good start to what I know will be problems ahead

Kevin,
I do agree with your feedback for the current email communications that our systems send. We're hoping this will be improved with the new provisioning system.
As for the agent that placed your order, I am suggesting feedback is required. The address was taken down correctly by the guy you spoke to on 21/05, however when the order was actually placed on 26/05, it was placed at the wrong address.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Harry Beesley
 Plusnet Help Team
Superuser
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Re: Good start to what I know will be problems ahead

Harry / CRT,
Well I now rather think I am starting to understand all too clearly the confusion reported around here when - for whatever reason - and order is "cancelled" and re-submitted.  It seems that ghosts of the cancelled order remain and cause confusing communications to be issued.
This order is awaiting a survey, so I was not too surprised to see yesterday evening an email advising that there is a need to arrange an appointment.  On phoning the business CSC "AJ" advised that the email rather related to automated processes surrounding the cancelled order and had nothing to do with arranging a survey appointment.  Crazy
I decided to take a look at the closed history tickets to see if they shone useful light on what is happening - that took some finding, so I guess inhibiting access to tickets is now starting to bite in the business space of the portal.  Anyhow, I came across this gem...
Quote
Service Notice #230720423< Back
Service Notification
1:09pm, Thursday 21 May 2015
Referral SignUp Preference: No referrer was entered on signup

Does this mean that I have not been registered as the referrer as requested during the phone call sign up?  If yes, can someone please correct this (listen to the phone call)?
Kevin
Plusnet Help Team
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Registered: 25-03-2015

Re: Good start to what I know will be problems ahead

Kevin,
I agree, it's strange how it says no referrer was entered on signup...
I've checked this and your account shows as the referrer.
I've made a note of this and I'll pass the feedback on to the relevant people to investigate this further. But once this account activates you should also be able to see this on your account as one that you've referred.
If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Harry Beesley
 Plusnet Help Team
Superuser
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Re: Good start to what I know will be problems ahead

This thread is well over due an update.  The extent of BTOR issues in supplying this line have exceeded even my worse fears.
After the order was changed (as per above) to a NSP (non-supplied premises) order things from BTOR have gone from bad to worse.  Delay after delay on facilitating the survey, surveyor turing up unannounced, survey report bearing no resemblance to the reality of the site and BTOR failing to respond to PlusNET requests for updates for over a week.
Finally today it transpires that BTOR are demanding £300+ for a survey (which is wrong) which does not actually advise of the costs for the provision of the line.
What is as bad, is learning that at the time a NSP order is placed. PlusNET has no means of knowing if BTOR will stick a survey fee on the customer. This is simply not good enough.  BTOR needs a major overhaul.  I have difficulty finding substantial complaint against the bulk of PlusNET staff here, for if BTOR do not answer questions, queries etc., there is not much that can be done.  However what is not acceptable is the absence of escalation routes available to PlusNET, short of the CEO's office.
I have now written to Andy Baker three times on the necessity to force change upon BTOR.  May be now something will happen?  ...I have to have a dream.
Superuser
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Re: Good start to what I know will be problems ahead

I am a little disappointed that there has been no response from the CRT - the only apparent channel through which feedback is picked up and fed into product / service channels.
Quote from: Townman
What is as bad, is learning that at the time a NSP order is placed. PlusNET has no means of knowing if BTOR will stick a survey fee on the customer. This is simply not good enough.

In investigating this issue further I am now unclear as why PlusNet do not know that there will be a charge for a survey on a NSP provide looking at Openreach's NSP price list...
Quote
Non Served Premises means premises that have not previously had a fixed line telephone service. They would normally be uninhabited / unmanned, not governed by the conditions of the Health & Safety at Work Act (HSAW), or not comply with conditions as defined by local councils as habitable, including having toilet and welfare facilities.
They tend to be sited in a street or footway or at a roadside and are normally unmanned and include payphone sites, roadside locations, traffic control system sites, mobile transmitters etc.
 
In all instances, Excess Construction Charges will apply as appropriate. These can be found in `Excess Construction Charges ' in the Service Products section of this Price List. This can be found at:
http://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/pricing/serviceproducts.do
These charges are in addition to the standard connection and rental charges for the access line product. A survey fee is charged whether or not the service is taken.
Excess Construction Charge Survey Fee: (Payable regardless of whether service is taken or not)  01/04/2015  260.30 

I can only conclude that the NSP provision journey is not ware that IN ALL INSTANCES a SURVEY FEE IS CHARGED regardless of the service being taken up.
The doubt over the process was advised to me by a senior team leader who is excellent in all that he has done for my business services over the years.  I can only conclude that there is a gross lack of clarity between the BTOR price list and training / expectations of PN staff and the consequential failure to manage the expectations of end users.  As I read the BTOR price list, the SURVEY FEE is inescapable.
Installation fees are something else - see the embedded link.

Kevin
Plusnet Help Team
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Re: Good start to what I know will be problems ahead

I'm not fully up to date on the Provisioning side of things so I'll flag this to someone who can get a answer.
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 Matthew Wheeler
 Plusnet Help Team
Superuser
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Re: Good start to what I know will be problems ahead

Well nearly 3 weeks later and BTOR are still screwing things up right royally!
Further to being stung by BTOR for an unexpected survey fee, I've now had two ordinary installation engineers visit, they being totally unbriefed on the total works required, to say nothing of being not skilled in the works required.  BTOR have done nothing in respect of the findings of THEIR surveyor, yet have sent out two engineers, wasting their time, my time and my client's time.
Try as PlusNet might a clear plan and time line have not been forth coming from BTOR.  Whilst PlusNet remain responsible for managing the situation their 'reach' into BTOR is limited and frankly inadequate for sorting out the complex provides.  In this case, the telegraph pole is obstructed by a tree, is a common service (power & phone) pole and this needs 'special' equipment to access and is outside of its certification date, to say nothing about it being on the edge of a canal.  All of this was known about by BTOR a month ago, yet they still sent out a lone J.C. Quinn engineer on Wednesday (by appointment) and a real BTOR engineer this morning (unannounced).
It is frustrating all round, not just for me and my client, but also the PlusNet staff trying to sort this out.
This afternoon I wrote to...
Quote
BT Group CEO: Gavin Patterson
BT Openreach CEO: Joe Garner
BT Openreach Service Delivery COO/MD: Roddy Thomson
...copied to PlusNet CEO: Andy Baker

I heard a short while ago that PlusNet now have been given the access to senior BTOR management they need to get this matter resolved.  I have no doubt that ALL of the PlusNet staff I have been dealing with have tried their hardest to resolve this through 'normal' channels, however when things do go wrong, they go wrong big time due to issues internal to BTOR.  I read so many cases on here of no updates, no information, no dates for service provision and am inclined to put the responsibility for that solely in BTOR's lap.
It seems that if PlusNet are not able to resolve matters through 'normal' channels, the way to get traction on BTOR is to complain direct to the senior management in BT Openreach and in BT plc, who has governance over both BTOR and PlusNet.
@CRT & KS - thank you for your perseverance and patience...
Kevin
Superuser
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Posts: 12,608
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Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: Good start to what I know will be problems ahead

Quote from: Townman
survey report bearing no resemblance to the reality of the site

For the benefit of diligent readers - at the time of writing the above, the somewhat scant BTOR survey report implied that there was a tree in the EU's premises obstructing the installation of the new line and that the EU would need to rectify this.
Investigation of the surrounding area a couple of weeks later identified a pole elsewhere which is obstructed by a conifer which someone (BTOR) will need to address to allow BTOR access to the pole to install the new circuit.  I somewhat expect that it is BTOR's responsibility to maintain ready access to THEIR equipment under way leave rights.
Hence my comments that BTOR has known all a long what THEY need to do before this line can be installed.