FTTP packages

[filipole]

You can call be whatever you want, but "speed" and "usage allowance" are irrelevant. This is not why I use internet and pay for the service. I am not sitting admiring an internet speedometer. I use the net as it is nowdays pushed to us - television, telephony, shared storage. That is why IMHO fiber is here; what is a point to deliver a fast connection, if it can't be used as intended?
I don't care about "monthly block data allowance"... Sorry. I may not be technical,but FTTP is "to premises" connection, so it's not like it is even shared with my neighbors.
And I don't "get" these for free either, I am prepared to pay for the service.
And I can't see why others can offer unlimited usage and Plusnet can't - at the end they all be buying a monthly block data allowances from BT wholesale.
The entire package structure for FTTP is flawed. Take this 5GBP surcharge for each 5GB over the limit. It may be OK if average monthly usage is 10Gb, but not if it is 10Gb/day. I am now forced to pay 10GBP per day or effectively stop using the service - these are hotel rip-off charges.
Adie:quote

[ChrisL]

Quote from: filipole

And I can't see why others can offer unlimited usage and Plusnet can't -

They do it by having a large number of customers paying for a lot of bandwidth they will never use. If you do manage to get on an 'unlimited' service that allows you to clock up 10GB per day, you will be being hugely subsidised by other users. This is the point of comparing you with a merchant banker.
I am already subsidising your current usage and, of course I don't speak for Plusnet but only for myself, the sooner you find another provider the better I shall like it.
I mean this in the nicest possible way consistent with looking after number one.
Chris
edited for a w-for-b typo  :-[

[filipole]

Quote from: ChrisL

They do it by having a large number of customers paying for a lot of bandwidth they will never use. If you do manage to get on an 'unlimited' service that allows you to clock up 10GB per day, you will be being hugely subsidised by other users.

So if I get you right, other ISPs pass economy of scale to customers; PN to shareholders (or whatever the owners they have)?
If you want to get to "subsidised" discussion, why don't you tell how much is it in real currencies? What the "cost" of 10GB/day for PN is? For now all your words are just meaningless nonsense.
How do you know that I am already not paying enough to cover my cost? What will be enough?
Do you think you also subsidise all PN business service as well?

Quote from: ChrisL

I am already subsidising your current usage and, of course I don't speak for Plusnet but only for myself, the sooner you find another provider the better I shall like it.

LOL - I shall see how loosing a customer PN will make you better off.

[Luzern]

ISTM that what some folk want from an ISP is a bespoke package, which isn't likely ever to happen, unless at hefty premium rates, if even then.
Perhaps our OP would be best spitting in the wind. The best he will ever find will be a ready made job, because those are the merchandises ISPs sell; the ones that reasonably satisfy a large number of folk, whilst maximizing profits. It's business. So friend find what suits you, and be happy.

[filipole]

.........

[filipole]

Quote from: lucerne

ISTM that what some folk want from an ISP is a bespoke package, which isn't likely ever to happen, unless at hefty premium rates, if even then.

Perhaps this discussion more belongs to FTTP trial, but no, you are wrong, I am after packages tailored for FTTP, as FTTP brings it's own specifics - it's sold as something which can deliver constant streaming like HD IPTV, VoIP, shared storage (like iCloud), etc. It can technically, but not how it is delivered by PN in terms of pay packages. And besides old argument about "fair" usage" is less relevant as well, as FTTP is not shared for access (though core network is).
Hefty premium? Why? They already do unlimited for business? Is 35GBP/m you call a hefty?

Quote from: lucerne

Perhaps our OP would be best spitting in the wind. The best he will ever find will be a ready made job, because those are the merchandises ISPs sell; the ones that reasonably satisfy a large number of folk, whilst maximizing profits. It's business. So friend find what suits you, and be happy.

Sure I will. Will speak to CS Monday and will make my mind; you are right here, this is just best value for money - for PN and myself.
The reason for me to post here is to provide a message to other folks trying to jump on the fiber wagon - it's may not what you think it is in PN delivery.

[WWWombat]

@filipole
In essence, you are right. The problem is in conjuring up a package that is suitable for a heavy user of FTTP. It isn't a problem that we (the general population of the UK) have had to cope with so far.
The way the market for broadband has developed in the UK means we have very much gone for a model where basic access, at any line speed, is as cheap as chips. Everyone pays the same cheap access price, whether they can get 512Kbps, 2M, 8M, 20M, 40M or now (at least while being trialled) 100M.
With this model, we then have to pay for usage - and even if it is hidden from us consumers by "packages", it isn't hidden from Plusnet - who have to pay BT for backhaul bandwidth across their network from exchanges to PN's pipes. The whole model - of having a) Peak-Hour Usage limits, b) Peak-Hour traffic management, c) Off-peak unmetered usage - is then designed to carefully control use of this "paid" backhaul. The main point at which control is needed is busy hour - around 8PM - so the concept of "fair usage" is entirely relevent here.
Within this model, anyone not using their allowance, and/or not consuming their (managed) "slice" at busy-hour, is always subsidising the users who are wanting more.
Other countries do things the other way around: They have payment levels for different line speeds, with unlimited usage allowances (or hidden fair-usage policies); obviously the line speed becomes something of a limiter to excessive usage, but the cross-subsidisation is still an issue there.
Where next then?
You must remember that you are part of a trial with this FTTP thing; and one aspect of the trial is to work out how much usage allowance is needed by the different users. This information will lead to the development of commercial packages that try to balance a low monthly fee (which UK broadband consumers demand, as that is what they are used to) against a higher monthly allowance. Because usage is actually a cost in the UK model, they have to be careful about getting this balance right.
Plusnet already did this once with the FTTC trials, where the ultimate commercial packages are seen as costing £10pm extra, where the money must be split between the cost for the higher line speed and the higher usage allowance. But you've seen that those packages come with a bit more busy-hour control (via traffic management) than the non-fibre packages, right?
They obviously need new models for FTTP too, and will be working these models out from user behaviour in the trial. Your demands will go into that process, but whether anything will come out in time for you right now is another matter.
What I can be pretty sure of is this... while the UK follows a model of charging usage through the backhaul charges, you will not see a "cheap" unlimited package alongside a "fast" FTTP line speed alongside "fast" traffic-management rules to match.

[orbrey]

At the moment I'm afraid it's a case of:

       FAST
       /  \
      /    \
     /      \
    /        \
   /          \
CHEAP-------UNLIMITED

Pick two :)
I agree that things are going to have to change as usage and speeds continue to go up, but as things stand it's all a bit new. We'll have to give things time to mature I'm afraid.

[filipole]

Thanks wwwombat - this is a overview of the current situation.
@Matt - I have no issues with the choice you offer and would lean towards "FAST/UNLIMITED" in my case (of course the CHEAP means different to different people)
Where my problem was - is a perception one can get from media that "new" fast broadband changes how we can do things - share data, watch IPTV, communicate instantly via vidio/audio using the net.
Technically it all works, however the practice is - I jumped on FTTP to try the above and failed; all works fine if you prepare to use from midnight till 8AM in the morning.
I currently hit between 7 and 10Gb per day (no downloads or p2p, 80% - streaming) - non of the PN packages can support this (I had to switch off PN router for 4 days last month as it was cheaper picking up wifi from FON than paying excess charges)
Spoke to CS and will be leaving PN to move to BT (they seams to be the only option for me at the moment)