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BT Engineer visits

maranello
Pro
Posts: 1,004
Thanks: 90
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Registered: 11-01-2008

BT Engineer visits

Firstly, I'm glad this sub-topic exists, it allows me to let off a bit of steam rather than get aggressive on the phone to the CSC (If Michael is reading this, please accept my apologies)
Anyway, on with the rant.......
In trying to resolve a 'fault' on my broadband connection, I have now had BT to my property 4 times. Each time it appeared that the engineer was expecting to do little more than a 10 minute monitoring of the connection. Clearly this is unlikely to isolate the cause of the large fluctuations of the SNR margin which are random and ultimately result in a dropped connection when the margin gets too low. Even though I have done all the tests and checks to isolate my internal wiring or equipment as a potential cause, BT will not take any notice of my own records of router stats and disconnections, and seem reluctant to check what, in my uninformed opinion, is most likely to be the source of the problem, the quality of the line and connections between my master socket and the local cabinet. This after all is exposed to wind and rain, and the underground sections have potential leaking man-hole covers (I counted at least 7 covers between the pole and the cabinet). As one engineer said, there are many connections which could potentially be suspect.
The problem is that I would have expected each successive engineer visit to involve checks in increasing detail rather than do nothing more than the minimum they can get away with when no fault is apparent at the time. Each visit potentially could cost me £169, and if I don't personally get charged it would not surprise me if BT charged Plusnet. It is also a waste of my time, a waste of the engineers' time, and since it does not fix the problem I have to get Plusnet staff involved yet again. I am rapidly losing confidence that it will ever get fixed, and starting to think that my only option is to simply put up and shut up.
I believe that Plusnet recognise that there is a fault, and appear on the surface to be trying to escalate the thoroughness of the checks required on my connection. But this message does not seem to be getting through to BT, and I don't understand why not.
Having just previewed this post, from a rant point of view it is rather tame. It's just that I type slowly, and I have calmed down in the time it's taken. The  bacon bap I have just eaten has also cheered me up a bit.
My other car isn't a Ferrari
16 REPLIES
Ianwild
Grafter
Posts: 3,835
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: BT Engineer visits

A good rant there - nice one Shocked
timlake
Grafter
Posts: 67
Registered: 13-10-2008

Re: BT Engineer visits

I feel for you.  I hate that underlying all ADSL services we have to rely on BT, who just don't seem to care.
Maybe in a few years when the nationwide fibre project starts, things will get better
maranello
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Posts: 1,004
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Registered: 11-01-2008

Re: BT Engineer visits

Quote from: timlake
Maybe in a few years when the nationwide fibre project starts, things will get better

Better for whom? As I understand it, 21CN will only improve things for those who already have decent quality lines. I can't see how fibre introduction will be any different, priority will be given to the most cost effective implementation in city centres. Unless the price of copper rises above the price of gold, in which case BT could pay for the cost of installing fibre by selling for scrap the copper wires it replaces.
Quote from: Ian
A good rant there - nice one Shocked

Shocked? You do surprise me. From reading other posts on this forum I would have thought that Plusnet might see this as commonplace. And tried to do something about it!
My other car isn't a Ferrari
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,486
Registered: 02-10-2008

Re: BT Engineer visits

Quote from: maranello

Unless the price of copper rises above the price of gold, in which case BT could pay for the cost of installing fibre by selling for scrap the copper wires it replaces.

Well if and when fibre replaces copper - even for POTS - then there will a hugh amount of redundant copper cables  Smiley

Quote from: maranello

Shocked? You do surprise me. From reading other posts on this forum I would have thought that Plusnet might see this as commonplace. And tried to do something about it!

How can a small company like PN force big brother BT set their house in order  ?
- PN are just any other ISP who rely in BT Wholesale  Cry
maranello
Pro
Posts: 1,004
Thanks: 90
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Registered: 11-01-2008

Re: BT Engineer visits

Rant, rant, rant
BTw are a monopoly supplier and should be monitored against minimum service standards as set by the Regulator.
Plusnet and other ISPs that rely on BTw networks need to ensure that the product they supply performs up to their customers' expectations, and should use their collective influence to ensure that the standards set for BTw are sufficient to meet their needs, and be prepared to take whatever action they can to ensure such standards are met.
Rant ends.
But I accept that in the real world this won't happen Wink
My other car isn't a Ferrari
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,486
Registered: 02-10-2008

Re: BT Engineer visits

Quote from: maranello
Rant, rant, rant
Plusnet and other ISPs that rely on BTw networks need to ensure that the product they supply performs up to their customers' expectations, and should use their collective influence to ensure that the standards set for BTw are sufficient to meet their needs, and be prepared to take whatever action they can to ensure such standards are met.
Rant ends.

Apply for a job as PN's commercial manager - with a bonus related pay based on achieving the criteria you have just set  Wink
techguy
Grafter
Posts: 2,540
Registered: 12-09-2008

Re: BT Engineer visits

Quote from: timlake
I feel for you.  I hate that underlying all ADSL services we have to rely on BT, who just don't seem to care.
Maybe in a few years when the nationwide fibre project starts, things will get better

Here here, shame the individuals that started PN and set the company ethos didn't have the financial resources to take over BT as opposed to the other way round as we might be getting somewhere if they were calling the shots.
BT Wholesale and Openreach are complacent as they still hold all the cards and have no competition (LLU ops still have to pay them to house equipment in BT exchanges and connect customers to their equipment) and so they attract some engineers that will do the minimum to help.
I think the time has come for such critical infrastructure to be nationalised under a government owned firm, that way, both ISPs and their customers would get a better deal.
Time the old infrastructure hoarding dinosaur became extinct.
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,486
Registered: 02-10-2008

Re: BT Engineer visits

Quote from: techguy
I think the time has come for such critical infrastructure to be nationalised under a government owned firm, that way, both ISPs and their customers would get a better deal.
Time the old infrastructure hoarding dinosaur became extinct.

Like NationalRail -  Wink
but yes - every community has to have a local telephone exchange ?. Why on earth should it be in the hands of one huge company ?
Maybe a non-plc company should be established that  provides services to all telecom companies.
Heloman
Grafter
Posts: 519
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: BT Engineer visits

Like the nationalised Network Rail provides  services for the rail franchises? All that's done is add a burden for the taxpayer without any significant improvement to the service.
"marinello"' commented:
"Plusnet and other ISPs that rely on BTw networks need to ensure that the product they supply performs up to their customers' expectations, and should use their collective influence to ensure that the standards set for BTw are sufficient to meet their needs,"
But that won't work. They don't have any influence, collective or otherwise, to wield. There is nowhere else for them to take their business. Surely the only thing that will make BT wake up is major competition from other sources, (cable, mobile, satellite) at competitive prices?
prichardson
Grafter
Posts: 1,503
Registered: 05-04-2007

Re: BT Engineer visits

To say the least, you have had the rotten end of the stick.
If you don't mind, I would like to book another appointment for you. To do so, I need to confirm your availability. Given you have already had 4 visits, I am sure you know the drill for this.
I will attempt to call you in the morning if possible. Can you confirm you should be available before lunch to talk?
maranello
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Posts: 1,004
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Registered: 11-01-2008

Re: BT Engineer visits


Thanks Phil. I'm currently at work, so if you could ring me on the number on the Open Question (26287557) rather than my home phone number. I should be available most of this morning.
Regards
maranello
My other car isn't a Ferrari
sassy62
Grafter
Posts: 139
Registered: 22-08-2008

Re: BT Engineer visits

Quote
How can a small company like PN force big brother BT set their house in order  ?

Hmmm..especially when they are owned by them...which puts them in a difficult position unfortunatly.
pierre_pierre
Grafter
Posts: 19,757
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: BT Engineer visits

given that you are new to PN,  TPP  Plus Net are owned by BT Retail,  They Get their line service from BT Wholesale, who get the transport (Tele line) from Open Reach.
All the fault of Maggy and diversification.  they all act as separate companies
techguy
Grafter
Posts: 2,540
Registered: 12-09-2008

Re: BT Engineer visits

Openreach (or openretch as have heard it referred to) is the problem, remember BT only adopted this philosophy when the regulator threatened to take a chainsaw to it.
With the greatest of respect to the good folks of PN, Bt Retail are exactly that, a retail op, its the monkeys that run Openretch that are the problem.