cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Hub One not showing all connected devices

Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 14,034
Thanks: 1,613
Fixes: 127
Registered: ‎04-04-2007

Re: Hub One not showing all connected devices


@DinghySailor wrote:

With the greatest of respect, one of the UK's premiere cyber security experts will have far more expertise regarding network security than I believe you will - unless you are also sitting on national forums on cyber security.


Perhaps you can name them? These forums are open to all and I'm happy to enter a dialogue if they choose to register here. I keep abreast of security advisories, but it's certainly not my profession. Your contact may specialise in infosec, but they're far less likely to be as versed as I am regarding the working of the routers we ship.

This is also - in my opinion logically a cyber security issue, as how do I know a device on my network is not supposed to be there if I cannot see which devices are on the network?


There are other ways you can determine this. Being able to see the devices in the network map might give you more confidence in the router's ability, but not being able to see them doesn't make the device any more susceptible to unauthorised access.

 

You say that it is possible to see devices attached to the router - if so - how?

 

By accessing the device remotely and asking it to list the MAC/IP etc. of all the devices connected to it. There are network tools you could use locally that provide similar output. The fact some devices are missing from the network map is an aesthetic issue. There will be routers out there that don't even have this functionality, and I'd argue that they aren't necessarily considered insecure.

I feel we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. The issue is tracked, and it's on our backlog to fix.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
If I've been helpful then please give thanks ⤵

stoob
Newbie
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎24-01-2019

Re: Hub One not showing all connected devices


@bobpullen wrote:

The fact some devices are missing from the network map is an aesthetic issue.

 

This is not true. The Access Control function is now broken as you cannot add unlisted devices to it.

Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 14,034
Thanks: 1,613
Fixes: 127
Registered: ‎04-04-2007

Re: Hub One not showing all connected devices

Valid point, it has the potential to break that feature but I don't believe it's something DinghySailor is dependent on?

I don't have access to a Hub One at the time of writing so can't check, but are you able to define access controls using IP, rather than the pre-populated drop-down?

Are you using static IP assignments on any of your devices? I'd expect things to be less problematic if you're relying solely on the router's DHCP server.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
If I've been helpful then please give thanks ⤵

DinghySailor
Dabbler
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎04-01-2019

Re: Hub One not showing all connected devices

Bob,

Let's face it, there are security issues with the device, and whilst you are admirably loyal to the company, this does need fixing.

I am not happy that you are questioning the validity of my source, but there are security issues, because if I cannot see the devices attached to the router, your argument is that it is fine, because the router knows - but how do we know it knows? How do we know it is blocking as it should? If I cannot see which devices are attached, I don't know which are legitimate. You say there are programmes that will tell me that, but my router "has" that feature, which doesn't work. So it should work.

As far as I have seen, you have been unable to explain how I can access the true list of devices connected via the command line, which you said was possible.

I therefore suggest this security issue is fixed without any delay.
Regards,

 

stoob
Newbie
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎24-01-2019

Re: Hub One not showing all connected devices


@bobpullen wrote:

I don't have access to a Hub One at the time of writing so can't check, but are you able to define access controls using IP, rather than the pre-populated drop-down?



That wouldn't be much use as you can't give a device a static ip because of the same issue, but no, there's no way to manually add an ip address (or mac address) to the Access Control list other than by the drop-down list.

 

@@bobpullen wrote:

Are you using static IP assignments on any of your devices? I'd expect things to be less problematic if you're relying solely on the router's DHCP server.


Yes, there are wired connections with static ip's, I'm not sure why that would affect devices from being displayed. The "invisible" device does appear in the Event Log when it's being assigned an ip address.

 

The strange thing is that the "invisible" device is a Nintendo 2DS, while we also have a Nintendo 3DS that does show in the list of connected devices. Fortunately, it's only the 3DS that needs the access control.

dunks1980
Newbie
Posts: 3
Thanks: 3
Registered: ‎24-01-2018

Re: Hub One not showing all connected devices

Hi Guys. 

I am following this post quite closely for a couple of reasons,

firstly i am having the same issue some devices are not showing up on the router page which shows connected devices, and its also not bringing up the devices in the DHCP table this worries me a great deal because i don't know what devices are and are not connected and it the case of trouble shooting a laptop or phone appearing to not connect this is an issue to me i can also not check my network for intrusion or indeed stop a connection at a certain time like when i want the kids to stop playing on there computers and go to bed. (Ha Ha)

secondly it also poses a question of liability,  if some one were to gain access to my router and i didnt know because the connection didnt show up would i be still liable if they were doing illegal activities ? or would that fall back on "plusnet "

in this day and age people have been convicted on the basis of whats been downloaded on there internet connection and while i appreciate its the owner of the connection responsibility to monitor and stop any thing  illegal going on,

if the one tool people have to check there network is broken and shown to be defective in so much as devices can connect WITHOUT being seen how can I or any other non tech savvy person protect there own network and stop any potential illegal activity ? 

 

i appreciate there may be ways that "people" can check the network via command lines or by accessing the router remotely but is this information published on the plusnet website as a temporary work around and has it been sent out to all plusnet customers to know they have a new process to protect there network, i certainly haven't received any notification.

unfortunately i am not tech savvy enough to be of help in the discussion but like i say i am watching this discussion closely and until this is resolved i will be taking advice on how to protect myself from any liability because from my current point of view i am unable to secure my connection and i am unable to monitor it effectively going forward becuase of faulty equipment supplied by plusnet  

Baldrick1
Hero
Posts: 3,773
Thanks: 1,656
Fixes: 105
Registered: ‎30-06-2016

Re: Hub One not showing all connected devices

If you are that concerned then the best way to protect yourself from any liability is for you to buy your own modem/router, rather than use the bundled 'freebie' sent out by Plusnet.

I very much doubt whether the average punter goes into the router network settings, associates every MAC address and vague description with a physical device then checks that there are no extra connections. This I assume would need to be done every day if the lease renewal time is left at what I believe is the default of 1 day.

If this shortcoming in the Plusnet offering does become a major security issue at least you will have the satisfaction of being able to tell the world that Plusnet are aware.

Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 14,034
Thanks: 1,613
Fixes: 127
Registered: ‎04-04-2007

Re: Hub One not showing all connected devices


@stoob wrote:

@bobpullen wrote:

I don't have access to a Hub One at the time of writing so can't check, but are you able to define access controls using IP, rather than the pre-populated drop-down?



That wouldn't be much use as you can't give a device a static ip because of the same issue, but no, there's no way to manually add an ip address (or mac address) to the Access Control list other than by the drop-down list.


Depending on the device, the static IP can be assigned to it's network adapter, independently of the router controls. Irrelevant though, if you can't assign an access control to an IP Sad

@@bobpullen wrote:

Are you using static IP assignments on any of your devices? I'd expect things to be less problematic if you're relying solely on the router's DHCP server.


Yes, there are wired connections with static ip's, I'm not sure why that would affect devices from being displayed. The "invisible" device does appear in the Event Log when it's being assigned an ip address.

The strange thing is that the "invisible" device is a Nintendo 2DS, while we also have a Nintendo 3DS that does show in the list of connected devices. Fortunately, it's only the 3DS that needs the access control.


If I recall correctly, when fixing the issue, the vendor established that there was some relation to either the presence of an external DHCP server (this was how I replicated the issue), or network devices that have been given a static IP allocation by something other than the router.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
If I've been helpful then please give thanks ⤵

Highlighted
DinghySailor
Dabbler
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎04-01-2019

Re: Hub One not showing all connected devices

Bob,

On my network, only the router is a DHCP server.

I think we are dancing around the issue. There is irrefutably a security issue, and there is no action to resolve it. Therefore, and security breach that doesn't show up on the router will have full liability for Plusnet. I think that is a very high risk strategy rather than providing the fix (as I believe you indicated it has been fixed, but not released).

I therefore look forward to confirmation the fix will be released in the next day or so, and this matter can be resolved.

Regards,

Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 14,034
Thanks: 1,613
Fixes: 127
Registered: ‎04-04-2007

Re: Hub One not showing all connected devices


@DinghySailor wrote:

There is irrefutably a security issue, and there is no action to resolve it.


I've not much more to add around the security aspect. Regarding your second point - on the contrary. Like you later go on to say, the bug has been raised and a fix ready to incorporate into a future software update (although it should be stated that it's largely untested at the time of writing).

Therefore, and security breach that doesn't show up on the router will have full liability for Plusnet.


If a router vulnerability emerges that puts our customers at risk, then responsibility pretty much falls on us regardless. Of course, given this eventuality, we'd look to deploy a fix as quickly as possible.

I therefore look forward to confirmation the fix will be released in the next day or so...


Even if a fix was ready to deploy, there is no way we'd push a software update to hundreds of thousands of customer routers over the space of a day or two. Far  too risky. Moot point though because we're not ready to do this, and it's very unlikely we will be for a while yet.

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Product Team
If I've been helpful then please give thanks ⤵

stoob
Newbie
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎24-01-2019

Re: Hub One not showing all connected devices


@bobpullen wrote:

If I recall correctly, when fixing the issue, the vendor established that there was some relation to either the presence of an external DHCP server (this was how I replicated the issue), or network devices that have been given a static IP allocation by something other than the router.

 


 


@DinghySailor wrote:

On my network, only the router is a DHCP server.

 


 

The Plusnet router is the only DHCP server on my network too, and I don't have fixed ip's assigned by anything other than the Plusnet router either.

DinghySailor
Dabbler
Posts: 11
Registered: ‎04-01-2019

Re: Hub One not showing all connected devices

Bob,

 

I admire your courage - to admit you have a fix for a security issue, but have not prioritised it, and have no schedule for testing it, let alone its release.

 

Liability could be horrendous, knowing how hackers will exploit weaknesses, and are sure to be reading such forums to understand weaknesses to exploit.

Gutsy, or foolish? I know which I err towards.

Good luck with that defence.

 

Regards,

neilyr
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎07-05-2019

Re: Hub One not showing all connected devices

I've got a similar issue, whereby not all devices are recognised or connected when plugged in to the PlusNet Hub One - can you advise how to check if the firmware verison on my Hub / how to receive the firmware update ?

Thanks

Neil

Plusnet Help Team
Plusnet Help Team
Posts: 14,779
Thanks: 390
Fixes: 106
Registered: ‎27-04-2007

Re: Hub One not showing all connected devices

Hi there, you can check the firmware version by logging into the router at http://192.168.1.254 (you'll need the login details on the card/underside of the router)

 

Go to "troubleshooting" then "helpdesk" and it's the 3rd item down on the list. 

If this post resolved your issue please click the 'This fixed my problem' button
 Adam Walker
 Plusnet Help Team
Data1
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎11-07-2019

Re: Hub One not showing all connected devices

Hi, can you tell me if this issue has a work around yet as I have the same problem and I need to see the IP address of all my connected devices?