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Hub One losing internet connection on 5Ghz WiFi only

NigeBoy
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 165
Thanks: 42
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Registered: ‎07-10-2016

Re: Hub One losing internet connection on 5Ghz WiFi only

Just wanted to give an update on this from my point of view as there have been loads of posts in the last week whilst I was away.

Complaining to Ombudsman Services (who are paid by Plusnet to make light of any complaints) was a complete waste of time.

Whilst accepting that loads of other customers were suffering from this problem by viewing this post they said they were only dealing with my complaint and thought that Plusnet (who pay them to make excuses) were handling this fairly.

I appealed their decision and got the same response.

If you think Plusnet deserve 0/10 for customer service then Ombudsman Services (paid by Plusnet to make excuses) are 100 times worse.

I am now in touch with Ofcom about this.

When I get chance I will post quotes from Ombudsman Services but I suspect Plusnet moderators will delete this post as 'being unhelpful' as they did to a previous post from someone else in the past.

@bobpullen Have you got anything to add to this? I suspect not from your complete silence when I am trying to help you.

My contract is up for renewal now, I have tried to help Plusnet for 6 months and got nothing in return except for dishonesty and half the service I have paid for.

It's time someone was made accountable.

Gandalf
Community Gaffer
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Re: Hub One losing internet connection on 5Ghz WiFi only

Thanks for getting back to us @NigeBoy and I'm sorry to see you feel that way.

I can assure you that the Ombudsman Services are an independent service who make decisions fairly regarding any complaints you may raise about your Plusnet service and we don't pay them to influence this decision. 

What I'm about to say is in no way to be taken as we're not investigating and want to fix the issue...

However the router we provide is free of charge and it's part of our terms and conditions that we don't guarantee the wireless signal will reach everywhere in your home. As the 2.4GHz frequency works albeit maybe with the usual types of interference and if your connection works over a wired connection, then we are upholding our side of these terms. 

The service you've paid/paying us for is the broadband signal coming into your router guaranteed on a wired connection.

Personally if switching the 5GHz frequency off and solely using the 2.4GHz band isn't a solution for you, then while not ideal it may simply be worth just investing in a 3rd party router which should resolve this for you if you're able.

From 31st October 2022, I no longer have a regular presence here as I’ve moved on to a new role.
Anoush Mortazavi
Plusnet
NigeBoy
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 165
Thanks: 42
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎07-10-2016

Re: Hub One losing internet connection on 5Ghz WiFi only

@Gandalf 

For once, some honest answers please :-

Is Ombudsman Services partly funded by Plusnet?

Does Plusnet offer 5 Ghz WiFi as part of the package?

Two words will answer both questions.

 

 

Russkinguk
Grafter
Posts: 26
Thanks: 11
Registered: ‎29-12-2016

Re: Hub One losing internet connection on 5Ghz WiFi only

Hi @Gandalf,

I'm still slightly bemused at how you can try to hide behind the T&C's for wireless signal strength. This clause is intended (and rightly so) to protect Plusnet against issues outside of their control e.g signal strength in larger properties, through walls, interference etc. Except, we're not talking about any of these things here. The 5Ghz radio is currently completely borked and you are advising customers to turn it off. That is a fault which is entirely the responsibility of Plusnet and not one covered by that clause.

 

Let me remind you about another one of your clauses within your standard T&C's...

"2.1.7. agree that we have the right to modify any digital content we provide (for example to update the software in your router). Modifications will be of the same quality and description."

 

I would hardly call the .263 firmware modification "of the same quality" would you? I look forward to your creative response as to how this clause doesn't apply.

NigeBoy
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 165
Thanks: 42
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎07-10-2016

Re: Hub One losing internet connection on 5Ghz WiFi only

@Gandalf 

Whilst you are dealing with me can you please clarify something else.

Last week, whilst on holiday, I got a call from Plusnet telling me my contract was about to expire. Well, not really that, more trying to get me to contract again, if you were honest.

Because it was inconvenient I was told I would find an offer on your website if I logged in.

There is no offer, as I expected.

Can you please clarify what is available that your colleague on the phone misinformed me about? An option of all inclusive line rental would probably be appreciated rather than paying separately..

I have to do something after this contract expires to use up the few quid compensation offered by Ombudsman Services as it isn't applied to my account until after my current contract expires. I'm sure that is illegal as well.

Good to see that the compensation was for poor customer service which has happened yet again re that phone call.

Stu-Pydd
Newbie
Posts: 4
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Registered: ‎14-09-2019

Re: Hub One losing internet connection on 5Ghz WiFi only

@Gandalf

I don't think anyone is saying your breaching the terms of your contract as you've quoted a few times.
What I'm saying is we still have consumer rights which take precedence over the contract T&C's.
You advertise we receive a dual band wireless router, doesn't matter if it's free or paid for.
Our rights would be to expect the router to provide a dual band signal, which it isn't. A reasonable expectation would be for the router to last the term of our contract, which it hasn't.
As the law stands we would expect a repair or replacement within a reasonable time.
I would say that not having full use of the dual band facility for 6 months is not a reasonable time and I'm sure a valid argument could be created for compensation along with a repair/replacement router.
From what I've read most of us just want the equipment to work as advertised.
NigeBoy
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 165
Thanks: 42
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎07-10-2016

Re: Hub One losing internet connection on 5Ghz WiFi only

@Russkinguk 

@Stu-Pydd 

I was told via a PM in May this year when I was trying to get a firmware rollback

"There are known and understood problems with the older firmware versions. Whilst these issues may not have affect you individually, they are proved to affect a significant volume of our overall customer base."

The router has never actually been fit for purpose.

Surely Plusnet know the implications of this.

Russkinguk
Grafter
Posts: 26
Thanks: 11
Registered: ‎29-12-2016

Re: Hub One losing internet connection on 5Ghz WiFi only

Hi @NigeBoy,

I'm under no disillusion that this will ever be fixed. When you consider how easy this issue is to reproduce (despite Plusnet's claims to the contrary) and the 7 months (or more) this issue has been discussed, if it were fixable then it would have been fixed by now. The lack of genuine information coming from Plusnet speaks volumes. This issue is now all about containment as I think we all understand what is really going on and as you say, the implications this holds.

 

Gandalf
Community Gaffer
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Registered: ‎21-04-2017

Re: Hub One losing internet connection on 5Ghz WiFi only

@NigeBoy wrote:

For once, some honest answers please :-

I always try to be as open, honest and transparent as I can be.

Is Ombudsman Services partly funded by Plusnet?

No.

Does Plusnet offer 5 Ghz WiFi as part of the package?

It is a feature of a free router we provide.

Two words will answer both questions.

I don't think it's fair for me to answer that second question with a yes or no, because things aren't always that straightforward.

@Russkinguk wrote:

I'm still slightly bemused at how you can try to hide behind the T&C's for wireless signal strength. This clause is intended (and rightly so) to protect Plusnet against issues outside of their control e.g signal strength in larger properties, through walls, interference etc. Except, we're not talking about any of these things here. The 5Ghz radio is currently completely borked and you are advising customers to turn it off. That is a fault which is entirely the responsibility of Plusnet and not one covered by that clause.

I feared my response would come across this way. I've really just stated facts, that the wireless signal around your home isn't our responsibility, which means that we won't be in a position to start terminating contracts free of charge or provide compensation for WiFi issues, however in no way does that mean we're not taking responsibility for the acknowledged issue with the 5GHz frequency and also in no way does it mean we aren't investigating. 

Let me remind you about another one of your clauses within your standard T&C's...

"2.1.7. agree that we have the right to modify any digital content we provide (for example to update the software in your router). Modifications will be of the same quality and description."

I would hardly call the .263 firmware modification"of the same quality"would you? I look forward to your creative response as to how this clause doesn't apply.

I don't think it's fair to say that, because this issue is only affecting a very small number of our customer base and it's impossible for us to pretest a firmware version in every single environment ever thought of. When it comes to technology, someone's always going to have an issue with something.

@NigeBoy wrote:

Last week, whilst on holiday, I got a call from Plusnet telling me my contract was about to expire. Well, not really that, more trying to get me to contract again, if you were honest.

You're signed up for marketing calls, so we may contact you towards the end of a contract to tempt you with a new offer. If you want to opt out of this type of call, I'd recommend updating your communication preferences Here.

Because it was inconvenient I was told I would find an offer on your website if I logged in.

There is no offer, as I expected.

Can you please clarify what is available that your colleague on the phone misinformed me about? An option of all inclusive line rental would probably be appreciated rather than paying separately..

I've arranged for the call to be listened to and I'll let you know when I know more.

I have to do something after this contract expires to use up the few quid compensation offered by Ombudsman Services as it isn't applied to my account until after my current contract expires. I'm sure that is illegal as well.

We can't see what you've discussed with the Ombudsman, however I can assure you that I've seen instances where we've applied compensation during a contract term. I'd imagine it's simply what you've agreed with them.

@Stu-Pydd wrote:
I don't think anyone is saying your breaching the terms of your contract as you've quoted a few times.
What I'm saying is we still have consumer rights which take precedence over the contract T&C's.
You advertise we receive a dual band wireless router, doesn't matter if it's free or paid for.
Our rights would be to expect the router to provide a dual band signal, which it isn't. A reasonable expectation would be for the router to last the term of our contract, which it hasn't.
As the law stands we would expect a repair or replacement within a reasonable time.
I would say that not having full use of the dual band facility for 6 months is not a reasonable time and I'm sure a valid argument could be created for compensation along with a repair/replacement router.
From what I've read most of us just want the equipment to work as advertised.

Simply put the router is free of charge and we don't guarantee wireless connectivity however again I'd like to emphasise that in no way does it mean we're not investigating the acknowledged issue affecting a small number of customers. We are looking at repairing the firmware through the investigation and a replacement Hub One isn't likely to 'fix' the issue.

@NigeBoy wrote:

I was told via a PM in May this year when I was trying to get a firmware rollback

"There are known and understood problems with the older firmware versions. Whilst these issues may not have affect you individually, they are proved to affect a significant volume of our overall customer base."

The router has never actually been fit for purpose.

Surely Plusnet know the implications of this.

Again any issues we have with the previous firmware versions were affecting a small number of customers and as my previous response 2 days ago, there are other good reasons for us not downgrading firmware anymore. While I understand I'm not able to list the reasons, as always being completely honest I hope that you'd be able to believe and trust us.

@Gandalf wrote:

It's also unfortunately not as straightforward as you'd imagine that we'd simply downgrade you and that'll be that, there are various issues that come with that for everyone involved which I'm unable to go into specific detail about.

If it was a viable solution, we'd happily have continued to do it as there's no benefit of us refusing to do this without good reason, because it affects your experience as our customer and causes complaints into the contact centre. We're here to resolve complaints and want to as quickly as we can with the viable options we have available to us. 

@Russkinguk wrote:

I'm under no disillusion that this will ever be fixed. When you consider how easy this issue is to reproduce (despite Plusnet's claims to the contrary) and the 7 months (or more) this issue has been discussed, if it were fixable then it would have been fixed by now. The lack of genuine information coming from Plusnet speaks volumes. This issue is now all about containment as I think we all understand what is really going on and as you say, the implications this holds.

Not sure that's fair? I understand it's taking a while to fix, but at this stage to say we're never going to fix it isn't fair. Intermittent software issues which may also be hardware related are one of the toughest to crack.

While I also understand both yourself and a small number of customers can reproduce it, however the majority are not experiencing an issue that's associated with this acknowledged problem. For example, my parents live in a relatively large house and have a Hub One with the wireless bands desynced with various devices connected to the 5GHz frequency and that works perfectly fine to the far reaches of the house.

I think the suggestions you're making that this is all about containment isn't based on fact. With the greatest of respect, I understand that a lack of the level of detail you're expecting can sometimes drive that, however please do stick to facts.

While I'd love to give you more information, we're likely never going to go into the amount of detail you're expecting from us. A always I'm being open and honest publicly, likely more so than any other big ISP - I'm happy to be proven wrong though.

Ultimately we get the frustration this causes as it's probably just as frustrating for us when you guys experience problems and we're unable to bring them to a resolution in a timely manner.

What the community can do to assist us in the investigation and get to the bottom of the issue is fill out the 8 step questionnaire if you're affected as this is actually designed to help us (Who would've thought?) and not just to be an inconvenience. Smiley

I do hope this helps (and not just because I've spent the last hour on it Roll_eyes)

From 31st October 2022, I no longer have a regular presence here as I’ve moved on to a new role.
Anoush Mortazavi
Plusnet
NigeBoy
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 165
Thanks: 42
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎07-10-2016

Re: Hub One losing internet connection on 5Ghz WiFi only

@Gandalf 

Thanks for the response.

If I remember correctly, on the call I asked if I could see what was available online. I was told there would be offers there for existing customers if I signed in. I was standing next to a busy road but I'm sure that was what was said.

There don't appear to be any packages for existing customers, only new ones. It only gives me the chance to upgrade my existing package not extend or renew it.  I really would like to know my options and would prefer to align line rental & broadband into a single payment if I should decide to stay.

With reference to your response to my question "Is Ombudsman Services partly funded by Plusnet?", their website seems to give a totally different answer under the How we work / How we're funded section :-

Ombudsman Services is free to consumers. We are funded by the fee a company that is signed up to our scheme pays to have each complaint reviewed. This covers the cost of us handling the case. This has no bearing on our decisions.

Matt Vickers, Chief Executive - Ombudsman Services.

You can't both be right!

Gandalf
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Re: Hub One losing internet connection on 5Ghz WiFi only

@NigeBoy I’ll let you know what the outcome of the call listening is however broadband and line rental aren’t as combined as you suggest. The costs are still broken down as broadband and line rental, but to adhere to advertising regulation they’re showing as inclusive on our website. 

For example, a fibre deal of £27.99 including line rental is fibre at £9 and line rental at £18.99.

With regards to funding Ombudsman, we don’t fund them in the way you suggested to influence their decisions, so anything we may pay them when defending a case isn’t relevant. 

 

[edit]

To answer your question about renewing your contract online as you’ve found out I’m afraid this isn’t possible unless you’re wanting to upgrade assuming you aren’t on the highest package fibre extra already. However I’d have expected the adviser who rang you to have left a ticket on your account documenting the discussion you had with a renewal offer for you to review. 

Realistically the outcome of the call listening is likely going to be feedback where appropriate. If you’re wanting to discuss a new deal you’re best off contacting customer options via live chat at http://www.plus.net/help/chat or calling them on 0800 013 2632. Alternatively I’d be happy to arrange a call if you could advise roughly when you’d be free for a call?

From 31st October 2022, I no longer have a regular presence here as I’ve moved on to a new role.
Anoush Mortazavi
Plusnet
NigeBoy
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 165
Thanks: 42
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Registered: ‎07-10-2016

Re: Hub One losing internet connection on 5Ghz WiFi only

Thanks @Gandalf .

It becomes a pain when line rental saver and broadband contacts are out of sync or for different length contracts. I just want them aligned if the cost is reasonable.

I directly asked if Plusnet partially funded Ombudsman services. That was all I asked. You categorically said no, despite their statement clearly saying the opposite.

Your answer was just misleading and incorrect when you said you try to be as honest as you can!

It is relevant because you are paying them to provide a service to support your company, even if, as they state, it doesn't influence the outcome.

 

 

 

 

Gandalf
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Re: Hub One losing internet connection on 5Ghz WiFi only

 


@NigeBoy wrote:

It becomes a pain when line rental saver and broadband contacts are out of sync or for different length contracts. I just want them aligned if the cost is reasonable.

I'd recommend agreeing to a 12 month contract if you'd like to keep line rental saver in sync with your contract term. Not sure if you've seen my edit, but happy to arrange a call back if you want? I'm sure we'd be able to tempt you with a new deal

I directly asked if Plusnet partially funded Ombudsman services. That was all I asked. You categorically said no, despite their statement clearly saying the opposite.

Your answer was just misleading and incorrect when you said you try to be as honest as you can!

You asked me for a yes or no answer, I do apologise I should've expanded instead of simply answering like you asked, because as per my follow up comment, things aren't always as straight forward as a yes or no.

From 31st October 2022, I no longer have a regular presence here as I’ve moved on to a new role.
Anoush Mortazavi
Plusnet
NigeBoy
Aspiring Pro
Posts: 165
Thanks: 42
Fixes: 2
Registered: ‎07-10-2016

Re: Hub One losing internet connection on 5Ghz WiFi only

Hi @Gandalf 

Thanks for the update about renewing, that is appreciated.

I'm busy for the rest of the day now but will try one of the options you have suggested when I get chance.

I may even contact you about getting a call back if I can make myself available for a reasonable period of time!

Thanks for your help.

Gandalf
Community Gaffer
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Registered: ‎21-04-2017

Re: Hub One losing internet connection on 5Ghz WiFi only

No problem @NigeBoy 

Let us know if there’s anything else we can help with

From 31st October 2022, I no longer have a regular presence here as I’ve moved on to a new role.
Anoush Mortazavi
Plusnet