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2nd Hub1 as Guest network LAN to WAN "no internet connection"

hilltop
Hooked
Posts: 6
Registered: 29-03-2017

2nd Hub1 as Guest network LAN to WAN "no internet connection"

First time I joined Plusnest community and first time post!

Overall, I'm very pleased with the Plusnet Hub1 router that arrived when I upgraded to fibre, however, it does not provide facility for guest network.

I want a secure WiFi network for guests, separate from my main WiFi; I don't want to extend the range of the main WiFi. Web-searching suggests using two routers connected LAN to WAN. I want to keep my new Hub1, and for convenience, I purchased a 2nd Hub1 from eBay - arrived in original Plusnet box with all packaging and cables undisturbed.

I searched the Plusnet Community but couldn't find Hub1 to Hub1 LAN-WAN topic.

This is what I've done so far:

a) factory reset 2nd Hub1

b) ethernet cable 2nd Hub1 LAN port to PC LAN port (having turned-off WiFi on PC) - logged onto Hub1, then: settings>advanced settings>home network>IP addresses >> changed IP address to 192.168.1.245 (i.e. few down from default 254)

c) successfully logged back on using new IP address. Then successfully changed SSID and wireless password.

d) using wifi app could see both Hub1's had selected non-overlapping channels (on both bands) - main wifi still working fine.

e) disconnected 2nd Hub1 from PC.

f) LAN-WAN: using same ethernet cable, connected 1st (main) Hub1 LAN port (yellow) to WAN port (red) on 2nd Hub1.

I can log onto 2nd Hub1 via wifi, but sadly get "no internet connection" : orange light on front.

(tried a alternative cable between Hub1's but no change)

I also tried changing the Broadband username on 2nd Hub1 to be same as that on the main Hub1, but no change.

 

 

 

ex-electronics design engineer, with some IT knowledge
11 REPLIES
ian007jen
Rising Star
Posts: 392
Thanks: 4
Fixes: 2
Registered: 06-09-2007

Re: 2nd Hub1 as Guest network LAN to WAN "no internet connection"

"b) ethernet cable 2nd Hub1 LAN port to PC LAN port (having turned-off WiFi on PC) - logged onto Hub1, then: settings>advanced settings>home network>IP addresses >> changed IP address to 192.168.1.245 (i.e. few down from default 254)""

 

Change this IP address to a different subnet (try 192.168.100.254)

 

Ian

 

DS
Pro
Posts: 562
Thanks: 115
Fixes: 7
Registered: 06-01-2017

Re: 2nd Hub1 as Guest network LAN to WAN "no internet connection"

f) LAN-WAN: using same ethernet cable, connected 1st (main) Hub1 LAN port (yellow) to WAN port (red) on 2nd Hub1.

 

It needs to be 'yellow' on primary hub to 'yellow' on the secondary. It doesn't matter which ethernet ports you use, but for neatness I often suggest using port 1 on each hub or the GigE port on earlier versions of the BTHH's.

The PNH1 is the same as a BTHH5a.

 

fwiw, the original IP you selected (192.168.1.245) is fine

Although I wrote this for the older BTHH3's, this may also help you with the fine tuning (ie turning off DHCP) - here

Community Veteran
Posts: 6,284
Thanks: 444
Fixes: 40
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: 2nd Hub1 as Guest network LAN to WAN "no internet connection"

If you connect to the 2nd Hub WAN port you will need to :-

1) Change the complete subnet of the 2nd hub to say 192.168.2.x , i.e different to to the 1st hub ( and I'm not sure if that is possible on a Hub 1! )

2) Change the WAN port setup ( on the 2nd HUB ) from PPPoE to DHCP so that it gets an IP from the 1st Hub

 

If you connect to the LAN port on the 2nd HUB then you need to :-

1) Change the 2nd HUb IP address as suggested above

2) Disable DHCP on the 2nd Hub

hilltop
Hooked
Posts: 6
Registered: 29-03-2017

Re: 2nd Hub1 as Guest network LAN to WAN "no internet connection"

Ian, Thanks for the help: I changed to different subnet as you suggested - first time didn't change DHCP range and couldn't login - did factory reset and rechanged subnet and the DHCP range to match - was then able to login, but sadly still no internet. 

 

Do you know if I can change the WAN settings on the Hub1 as suggested by MisterW?

ex-electronics design engineer, with some IT knowledge
hilltop
Hooked
Posts: 6
Registered: 29-03-2017

Re: 2nd Hub1 as Guest network LAN to WAN "no internet connection"

DS, appreciate your response, but, if I understand correctly, if I connect LAN-LAN yellow-yellow I'll get an extended-range single network, which is not what I'm trying to to (I want a second independent network); or have I misunderstood?

Assuming that I'm on the right track LAN-WAN; do you know if I can change the WAN settings on the Hub1 as suggested by MisterW?

ex-electronics design engineer, with some IT knowledge
hilltop
Hooked
Posts: 6
Registered: 29-03-2017

Re: 2nd Hub1 as Guest network LAN to WAN "no internet connection"

MisterW, thanks, changing the subnet did seem to work, but changing the WAN port setup doesn't seem so easy! Do you know if I can change the WAN settings on the Hub1 or the BTHH5a (which is equivalent)?

ex-electronics design engineer, with some IT knowledge
DS
Pro
Posts: 562
Thanks: 115
Fixes: 7
Registered: 06-01-2017

Re: 2nd Hub1 as Guest network LAN to WAN "no internet connection"

If you want a completely independent network, then you's need another line installed, with the additional costs etc.

If you connect both together via LAN, then it is sort of independent, but all traffic/data would flow via the primary hub.

 

Having it set as I suggested would give you your own network via your primary hub and a separate network via the secondary hub for guests as the wifi passwords and SSID's would and should be separate.

You'd then have your own 2.4Ghz SSID eg 'hilltop' and a 5GHz 'hilltop (5GHz)' and a guest network 'hilltop guests' and 'hilltop guests (5Ghz)'.

 

I run a hub one in my living room and a BTHH3 (used to be a 5a but my son preferred the smaller hub cluttering his workstation) and this set up works very well.

 

Your main hub would show guest devices connected via LAN only even if they are connecting via wifi if you then check the home network tab, and this is perfectly normal.

 

Community Veteran
Posts: 6,284
Thanks: 444
Fixes: 40
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: 2nd Hub1 as Guest network LAN to WAN "no internet connection"

MisterW, thanks, changing the subnet did seem to work, but changing the WAN port setup doesn't seem so easy! Do you know if I can change the WAN settings on the Hub1 or the BTHH5a (which is equivalent)?

I'll need to go dig out my Hub One as I only use it as a spare...
TBH you might be better buying a router than can provide a guest network out-of-the-box . That way you'll be able to get proper separation of guest clients.
 Edit: as I half suspected , it's not possible to change the WAN on the Hub one to DHCPSad
hilltop
Hooked
Posts: 6
Registered: 29-03-2017

Re: 2nd Hub1 as Guest network LAN to WAN "no internet connection"

Thanks to MisterW for confirming what I had thought; that I cannot use a 2nd hub1 LAN-WAN (at least it didn't cost me much!).

Thanks also DS for LAN-LAN with different SSID's suggestion; however, I'm feeling a bit uncertain about how securely separate the networks would be.

Thinking about a new router that has built-in guest networks, it seems that some manufacturers offer this but then don't offer encryption of the guest network (examples seem to be Linksys and Belkin as mentioned: http://www.computerworld.com/article/2940566/networking/linksys-smart-wi-fi-makes-a-stupid-guest-net... )

I'm looking at the Netgear Nighthawk R7000 (although it looks like I'll need to buy a separate modem). 

Can anyone offer suggestions for alternatives: router offering encrypted guest networks that has WiFi range at least as good as the hub1 (preferably also with built-in modem like the plus1)?

ex-electronics design engineer, with some IT knowledge
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,284
Thanks: 444
Fixes: 40
Registered: 30-07-2007

Re: 2nd Hub1 as Guest network LAN to WAN "no internet connection"

With a LAN-LAN configuration all devices ( even the ones on guest connections) will be in the same subnet and so will be able to communicate with each other. In reality the networks will not be separate.

As to new routers, the TP link range are good value. They will provide encrypted guest networks  according to this http://www.tp-link.com/us/faq-649.html and Guest client isolation from your local network. As to wifi range performance I've no idea but I'm sure google will help.

If you don't need dual band wifi or gigabit ethernet then the very basic td-w9970 can be bought from Argos at £29.99 ( I have one of these BUT I only use it as a VDSL modem in front of my Draytek 2830 )

If you need dual band and Gigabit then have a look at the VR600 at about £90 ( or the VR900 if you want AC1900 instead of AC1600 )

All have built in VDSL modems

hilltop
Hooked
Posts: 6
Registered: 29-03-2017

Re: 2nd Hub1 as Guest network LAN to WAN "no internet connection"

In the end I decided to keep my original Hub1, as it seems to be stable and give sufficient range throughout my home.

I bought an ASUS RT-AC51U AC750 (not too expensive!). Within 15 mins of it's arrival, I had changed the WiFi to a separate subnet and when connected Hub1 LAN to ASUS WAN, the ASUS automatically connected to the internet!

ASUS range throughout my home seems about the same as the Hub1, which is very interesting.

 

Thanks very much for your help and advice, much appreciated Smiley

ex-electronics design engineer, with some IT knowledge