Leaving Plusnet - OFCOM

[#1]

I have no idea what the 'European Credit Transfer and Accumulation System' has to do with this discussion but to be frank I am thoroughly fed up with the inane excuses that are being used on this forum in an attempt to defend the bullying stance by Plusnet that is being suggested. As a long standing Plusnet customer of over 10 years, I have not even been officially notified of these increases. The last time it happened I only found out after they had taken place. This time I intend to contact them and regretfully am now likely to terminate my contract. I expect the transfer to a new ISP to place at no cost to me as I have been assured I am entitled to do. Over the years I recommended Plusnet to many friends and family but regretfully never again!

[#2]

I think you know well that was a typo and no reference to EU double-Dutch was being made.

Bullying?  I think you'll find that PlusNet is simply exercising its rights under the contract YOU agreed to.  None of us like price rises, none of us like costs we cannot control, but these are unfortunately facts of life.  If you choose to move, you can also choose to do so in a manner which mistigates both your and PlusNet's cost.

However you want to spin this, legally it's a breach of contract and all parties are obliged to avoid unnecessary costs - including you.  If you do not migrate to a LLU provider, there is no necessity for a cessation charge to be raised and passed on.  It's your choice to act - some options have costs beyond Early Contract Termination charges.

One way or another the cost of the phone line element is going up for everyone, it's just a matter of when.

[#3]

I don't think that Ofcom material actually elaborates on exactly what "without penalty" means.

The "unfair contract terms" guidance discusses various different charges and what would be considered fair and unfair for each item. In particular, for the cease charge to be fair, it should "reflect only the direct costs associated with ceasing service", so Plusnet's cease charge might be an unfair contract term for customers in Market A.

The "mid term price rise" guidance only really discusses what would amount to "material detriment", but not which charges would and would not apply to leaving without penalty.

[#4]

It wouldn't be so bad if the information being spouted on here was accurate but it's not. If I move to another ISP it will obviously be using LLU, just as Plusnet and every other ISP available to me does as they all use BT/OR infrastructure.Who own the ISP is irrelevant! Don't you just love all the jargon 🙂

[#5]

@custos

I think you've misunderstood what LLU is. LLU providers like Sky and TalkTalk have their own equipment at the exchanges which you line would be connected to. Other providers use the BTWholesale equipment in the exchanges.

In terms of FTTC, your broadband would always come from the Openreach cabinets, but go to different equipment once it reaches the exchange, and your telephone line would still be connected to one or other type of equipment at the exchange.

[#6]

Sorry ejs but it's you who don't understand what LLU is, not me. Every ISP who uses LLU and that includes Plusnet and even BT, operate under the same OFCOM rules. What happens at the exchange and who provides what is irrelevant. That's all part of LLU. In any case any cost would be covered by the new ISP and certainly not charged to the one you were leaving. Frankly this is all getting rather boring now. Every time someone on here tries to justify this nonsense simply makes me even more determined to move to another ISP. If you have any evidence that Plusnet benefit from being owned by BT then I am sure OFCOM would be very interested to hear about it as it would breech OFCOM rules. I can include it in my complaint to them if Plusnet try and charge me anything for leaving them.

[#7]

Sorry @custos  but I think you need to review your understanding of LLU.  @ejs is correct.

[#8]

Yes he is, no he's not, what a pantomime! I have had to deal with OFCOM many times and in order to get a telephone here at my new home also had to deal with Plusnet, BT/Openreach, the County Council and on my neighbours behalf other ISP's. At that time I did not blame Plusnet, they did their best but were supplied with conflicting and incorrect information by Openreach. Over the years I have found Plusnet to be one of the better ISPs but regretfully that no longer seems to be true, which is a shame. I shall be sorry to go to be honest but since we are clearly never going to agree I see little point in continuing the discussion. I have always tried to be helpful and polite on this Forum and have found it most helpful in the past but I think we all accept that it's time this particular thread was ended. Cheers to you all, especially those who have proved so helpful to me in the past.

[#9]

Well due to the announcement I'll be jumping ship back to BT (I was with BT before I came to Plusnet). My own Plusnet contract ends in just over two weeks. Whilst I have not received any email yet informing of the latest price rises, clearly if I wished to, I can now leave completely penalty free anyway with me giving 14 days notice to Plusnet to end on my contract expiry date the same day as I begin the switching process to BT via their own website.

I'm afraid 18 month contracts are no longer for me and I will never enter into another 18 month contract again. I want a brand new BT Homehub 6 for starters!

Plusnet have been reliable, fair and to be honest, I've never had any problems with their service, but unless they can offer me the exact same deal as what BT are offering new customers (which Plusnet clearly can't), then I cannot justify renewing my contract.

[#10]

@custos

If your serious about moving..... go have a chat with these guys for a bit.

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[#11]

Sorry, don't have a clue what that link is, it quite literally means nothing to me?......

Anyway, I am switching back to BT because none of the other providers can offer me what I want.

As I say, Plusnet have been great but they can't offer what BT are currently offering to new customers. The only thing I'll miss about Plusnet, is their UK based Customer Service team as I've never had any issues with them on the couple of occasions I've needed to speak with them.

[#12]

@custos,

This is sadly so out of character for you and your previous contributions to these forums.  Whilst you appear not to accept what's been said here, @ejs' comments on LLU (Local Loop Unbundling) are quite correct.

LLU refers to moving an individual line in the exchange off BT's exchange equipment / back haul (WBC) to a third party's equipment and back haul, most notably Sky & Talk Talk.  If a PlusNet (or any other ISP using WBC - e.g. BT Retail) subscriber chooses to move to a service provided via LLU, then there will be a service cessation charge raised by BTw, though as noted above in Market A areas that charge might be zero.

It is somewhat evident that WBC ISPs are being penalised by BTw where subscribers elect to move to a LLU provider.  What is not clear to me is are the gaining LLU providers also charged for moving the local loop circuit to their exchange equipment?

[#13]

@Townman whilst not defending @custos, as clearly his understanding of what an LLU provider is mistaken, is not helped by sites such as Broadband Choices. So its easy to see and understand how the uninformed can reach the wrong conclusion.

How these sites get away with their drivel I don't know, but a simple LLU search on google gets them as one of the first sites that comes up.

[#14]

It's the bit about "via the BT Openreach network" that people are getting confused by. More accurately it should be "via the BT Openreach wires from exchange to user premises".

[#15]

@jelv That's really helpful.

May be a clearer acceptance of @custos' perspective is the all ISPs (except Virgin) use the BTOR local loop. However some (Sky & Talk Talk) use it via their own in-exchange equipment (unbundled) as LLU and the rest (including PlusNet) use the local loop via BTw's WBC product.

However, the question which remains unanswered is "Why does a WBC ISP loosing to a LLU ISP have to bear the cost of the LL migration to LLU?".  Seems like an industry scam to reduce Sky & Talk Talk's user acquisition cost, in what is supposed to be a level playing field industry.  Add to that Sky's perpencity to place service cease orders on lines to inhibit their users migrating away and it all starts to look like dishonest practices.