Leaving Plusnet - OFCOM

[#1]

So why wasn't I charged a cessation fee when I migrated away from PN to Sky following a price increase 2 years ago?

[#2]

The vast majority of homes are using BT/Openreach lines irrespective of ISP so a cessation fee would be very unlikely.

[#3]

According to the BTWholesale price list, Plusnet actually either make a slight loss on the cessation fee, or it's all profit in Market A where the BTWholesale cease fee is zero.

[#4]

@custos, yes they use BTORs last mile, but not all use BTs backhaul...

---

@HarryB wrote:

If the line is migrated away but remains on the BT Network, the cessation fee would not be applicable.

However if the line is migrated away but the new provider uses MPF lines (Such as Sky/Talktalk) the cessation charge would be applicable.

---

So according to this I should of been charged a cessation fee...

[#5]

---

@DaveyH wrote:

@custos, yes they use BTORs last mile, but not all use BTs backhaul...

---

Not always. I've seen Sky TAGS and Talktalk TAGS showing on TAGS checks, which would indicate it's on a BT line, as it comes back as line not found when checking full MPF/LLU lines.

It's all dependant on the cease code that comes through on the order when the service is leaving us.

[#6]

It is odd in the extreme that a loosing ISP has to pay a fee to BTw to facilitate Sky / Talk Talk to gain a customer.

Would anyone know if BTw charge LLU providers if their customer migrated to a WBC service user? That is the mirror of what happens to PN users migrating to Sky / Talk Talk.

If not then this looks like a rigged industry in favour of LLU providers.

[#7]

Ofcom rules require the big telecoms firms to give customers 30 days to leave penalty-free, and if you are unhappy you should vote with your feet and switch supplier. Many of my friends have already switched and none have been charged anything no matter what ISP they have gone to. Don't be bullied into staying by hollow threats!

[#8]

There is a difference between early termination fees (which cannot be charged in the event of a price rise) and a migration (WBC cessation) fee. They are not one and the same. Ofcom needs to make clear rulings on such matters - indeed there's lots of things Ofcom should do but they won't.

If additional engineering work is required to change a service to / from WBC / LLU the charge should be born by the acquiring ISP, not the loosing ISP. But given that this makes common sense ... it is not what actually happens.

In the case of there being no migration - the WBC product is simply ceased - it is difficult to understand why any charge arises ... the port should just simply be switched off which is a software function.

[#9]

Yes, well, as I have already mentioned, Plusnet's cease fee is not exactly the same as BTWholesale's cease fee. It was Ofcom that set the cease fee to zero for all BTWholesale services in Market A. So I expect even if Ofcom did do something about it, Plusnet would just carry on doing whatever they're currently doing for the next several years. A bit like how Plusnet just carried on charging more for FTTC in Market A, because that's what they always used to do for ADSL.

[#10]

It is odd in the extreme that a loosing ISP has to pay a fee to BTw to facilitate Sky / Talk Talk to gain a customer.

Would anyone know if BTw charge LLU providers if their customer migrated to a WBC service user? That is the mirror of what happens to PN users migrating to Sky / Talk Talk.

If not then this looks like a rigged industry in favour of LLU providers.

Well it's definitely rigged ! but from what I see it's in favour of BTw/BTOR.

As far as I am aware, when changing to LLU, OR need to re-jumper at the exchange for which I believe the LLU provider is charged. That SHOULD generate a PSTN CEASE-LLU XFER which is not chargeable. However it's really not transparent how the cease codes are generated between OR, BTw and ultimately the ISP and we the customers can't access OR and BTw directly. We have to  take PN at their word when they say they are charged by BTw and simply pass it on.

As far as transfer back from LLU to BTw , I would assume that BTw are charged for the re-jumpering and not the LLU provider. 

[#11]

It doesn't really matter what Plusnet may or may not be charged by their supplier - Plusnet decide what they will charge you. Like Plusnet's £65 engineer charge. I'm pretty sure it would cost Plusnet far more than £65 for a chargeable engineer visit. Plusnet do like blaming any unpopular charge as being due to their suppliers, and I have to admit, it appears to be a very effective strategy.

[#12]

'penalty-free' means exactly what it says. Any costs (if there are any which I doubt) are Plusnet's problem not the customer's. Most people won't have the slightest idea what is being talked about and neither should they be expected to. I have been with Plusnet for over a decade and have previously been reluctant to jump ship but any attempt to bully me into staying by threatening me with such nonsense makes me very angry and sad.

[#13]

I think the relevant material from Ofcom would be found under:

Guidance on individual General Conditions - GC9

Particularly:

unfair terms in contracts for communications services and

mid-contract price rises

[#14]

Thank you for the link ejs.

[#15]

---

@Ocustos wrote:

'penalty-free' means exactly what it says. Any costs (if there are any which I doubt) are Plusnet's problem not the customer's. Most people won't have the slightest idea what is being talked about and neither should they be expected to.

@custos

The links @ejs provided clearly distinguish the difference between Early Termination Charges (ETC) and Cessation charges.  The option to exit the contract early "without penalty" on a price increase applies only to ECTs ETCs.

Why do you think people should not have to understand the terms of the agreement they freely entered into? Are you really saying that suppliers ought to just accept the cost of people not knowing what they chose to do?  Or to put it differently, are you prepared to bear the cost of other consumer's ignorance?

---

 Edit - typo corrected.