mpf migrate order

[#1]

I intend to migrate to TalkTalk at the end of the year when my advance line rental runs out.
In order to avoid paying the rip off broadband cessation fee of £30, I understand that I need to have a recognised migration order, and as TT are a LLU provider, a MAC will not fill the bill.  I've asked on the TT forum whether TT would raise a mpf migrate order when my application is received, but not been successful in receiving an answer.
So, over to the tried and trusted PN customer service gurus - who raises a mpf migrate order, please, and how do I get one?
Thanks.

[#2]

Hi cybuerke,
As TalkTalk operate on a different network to the one we operate on we would place an mpf migration order which would bring your services over from the LLU network to the BT network 10 working days after we place the order, however, I can't comment on whether or not the cessation fee would be applicable from TalkTalk in this instance.
You need unfortunately need to discuss this further with TalkTalk as we can't comment on how their cessation charges are applied. Sorry!
Edit: Thanks RealAleMadrid! My brain's clearly not processing what I'm reading correctly!
As TalkTalk operate on a different network to the BT network the order that TalkTalk would place to migrate you over to them would include a cease order from our end which means that the cessation fee would be applicable. Sorry for any inconvenience caused.
Confirmation post posted later in thread. Billing have confirmed that cessation fee not applicable as long as both phone and broadband services are migrated simultaneously to LLU.

[#3]

@Linn, sorry but you seem to have misunderstood the OP. He is planning to leave PlusNet and migrate to TalkTalk. There seems to be some confusion with migrations to LLU suppliers. Does the cessation charge apply even though it is a recognised migration process?

[#4]

A normal migration involves no rewiring in the exchange and BT Wholesale continue to provide the service.
A LLU migration involves rewiring in the exchange and termination of the BT Wholesale service. BTw charge Plusnet for the termination, Plusnet pass the charge on.

[#5]

Quote

As TalkTalk operate on a different network to the BT network the order that TalkTalk would place to migrate you over to them would include a cease order from our end which means that the cessation fee would be applicable. Sorry for any inconvenience caused.

Quote

A LLU migration involves rewiring in the exchange and termination of the BT Wholesale service. BTw charge Plusnet for the termination, Plusnet pass the charge on.

Sorry to be the fly in the ointment, but my research so far suggests otherwise:
MPF Migrate Order
The new provider will inform your old provider that you intend to move, and this wi...




















MPF Cease charge Note 3 22/08/2007 06/10/2009 4.90
MPF Cease charge Note 3 07/10/2009 31/03/2010 5.04
MPF Cease charge Note 3 01/04/2010 31/03/2011 5.22
MPF Cease charge Note 3 01/04/2011 31/03/2012 5.37
MPF Cease charge Note 3 01/04/2012 0.00
Notes:

3) If Cease and Provide orders are used to transfer an end user instead of a migration order then the cease charge is applicable.
EDIT This post has been truncated - there is a section from the draft that is not showing in the posted item.

[#6]

This is the missing section to the above:
[url][http://www.thinkbroadband.com/guide/migration.html#mpf-migrate-order/url]
MPF Migrate Order
The new provider will inform your old provider that you intend to move, and this will usually trigger the start of the any notice period. Before initiating any change be sure you are aware of any outstanding charges due from remaining contract and notice period.
Some providers may charge an activation fee for this move. [My italics] [nb - activation, not cessation.
The telephone number from the old service should be ported across, but do check with the new provider they intend to do this.
The gap between the two providers for both telephone and broadband should only be a few hours.
Broadband or PSTN Cease
This should be a method of last resort, and would only be done if you intended to cancel the broadband on a telephone line, and have no intention of ordering broadband again on the telephone line. For products that rely on a BT Wholesale service the cease fee is £24.74+VAT, but where an LLU based service is used as of 1st April 2012, Openreach is not charging any cease fee (previously £5.37+VAT). [My italics]
Usually when a cease is requested you are provided with an expected date, but be aware that sometimes it can happen 24 to 48 hours early.
Services that are ceased, may still appear to have ADSL sync, but will not authenticate and provide internet access. This is commonly referred to as a stopped line.

[#7]

There was a thread about this a little while ago http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,125583.0.html
Something seems to have changed since last year when there was no cease charge for an mpf migrate. I don't think that thread really got to the bottom of the issue. Personally, I suspect either BTw are not sending the correct  LLU XFER Cease code or Plusnet are incorrectly processing it and generating the cease charge.

[#8]

Thanks for that MisterW.  An interesting thread, but as you say, not very conclusive.  It does seem that this stance has been adopted without question, but it's not what I agreed to when I joined PN, and I don't intend to be held to ransom by them, even though it's only for 30 quid.
I'll put in a formal complaint and then escalate it to CISAS if necessary.
dick:quote

[#9]

The cessation charge is explained here:
http://www.plus.net/support/customer_service/billing/cessation_charges.shtml
It states that if you don't transfer using a MAC code to then the cessation fee would be applicable, however, the way our Billing team calculate this is based on the code that is received when the gaining provider migrates the services. It depends on the code that comes through if the charge is applied or not.

[#10]

Linn,
Ah! so does that confirm what I believed here in this thread http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,125583.msg1091911.html#msg1091911

Quote

As I understand it, a transfer to LLU doesn't result in a 'normal' cease but rather it produces a 'LLU XFER PSTN CEASED' on the BTw systems. My understanding was that BTw didn't make a charge for this cease, has that changed recently?

[#11]

Yes, that's right MisterW.
cybuerke, when TalkTalk place their orders to migrate the phone and broadband, providing they place the orders as simultaneous orders then the correct code should come through to us indicating that it's an LLU migration transfer and therefore not charged.
We are aware that the page I linked to earlier isn't very clear and it's part of a project that the Billing team are working on to get this changed. The industry is changing how simultaneous orders are placed so the changes within the project will roll once the industry changes are implemented.
Hope this clears things up

[#12]

Actually it doesn't as we have previously been told - repeatedly - that a full LLU migration is charged and that this changed when the T&C's were changed on the 1st October 2013 as described here http://www.plus.net/support/october-changes-guide.shtml

Quote

Cessation charge The broadband cessation charge increased from £25 to £30. The charge can apply to any customer who has a broadband cease placed on their line. Generally, the main reasons for broadband ceases are:     A broadband account is cancelled (without switching providers)     Switching providers without a MAC key     The telephone line used to provide broadband is cut off Cessation charges don't apply if:     You use a MAC key to switch to another provider (this is called a migration)     you're a Plusnet Essentials or Plusnet Unlimited customer without a contract

It was discussed at length here http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,125583.0.html and confirmed here http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,125232.msg1088219.html#msg1088219

[#13]

it looks like 'can open, worms all over the table'
I'm not sure what we told then was correct Jim, the main T & C's have always said, and still do say

Quote

A broadband cease charge, as set out in the Price guide, is payable if you cease your Plusnet service and do not request and use a migration access code (MAC), or another recognised migration process to move to another service provider. You will not have to pay this charge if you are moving home and we are unable to provide the service at the new UK address.

As we've always said, a migration to LLU IS a recognised migration process.
If full LLU transfers have been charged then perhaps what needs to be established is where the error has occurred. I don't see how a full LLU migration can be anything other than simultaneous so have OR not given BTw the right code, have BTw not given PN the right code or have PN not interpreted the code correctly ? Unfortunately non of that is visible to us, the user!

[#14]

If you look at my final link and the staff member who has posted it - I don't think dragged in is accurate

[#15]

@MisterW
I don't think there's a code for Plusnet to misinterpret, I understood PN receive a bill from BTw which is pretty unambiguous!