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Very high cost of calling 05603 numbers, which Plusnet excludes but BT include

racquel
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Registered: 21-11-2008

Very high cost of calling 05603 numbers, which Plusnet excludes but BT include

I notice that Plusnet are charging very high rates for calls to 05603 G1 VOIP numbers, and that they are excluded from inclusive plans.
A 1 minute call cost me 25p.
05/11/2015 05603647XXX 17:08:07 00:01:00 £0.25
09/11/2015 05603647XXX 15:54:53 00:01:00 £0.25
I was asking my VOIP provider about this, and they are insisting that this is unusual.
For example, BT include these calls - This is BT's current price list, and under the section about inclusive calls, it says:
http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/lib/pdf/BT_PhoneTariff_Residential.pdf?s_cid=con_FURL...
"UK means calls of up to an hour to Local and National numbers
beginning 01, 02 and 03 (including any number range charged at g21
rates in Section 2, Part 11, sub-part 1 of the BT Price List)"
But Plusnet exclude them, which is even odder as they include 0845 and 0870!
https://www.plus.net/home-broadband/tariffs/anytime/
Specialised Service - g21 16.00p setup + 9p min = 25p minimum charge.
A one hour call to an 05603 number on BT would be free. On Plusnet it is nearly £9.
My VOIP provider seemed very surprised by this and replied with the following email:
"056 Numbers were used by BT for their VoIP offering - they're included in inclusive evening & weekend calls as well. In theory there is no reason to treat them any differently than a local call as they are just for VoIP ranges and nothing else.
They are not revenue generating - the charges to call them are set by the carrier calling them. It would certainly be worth asking them why they're charging so much to call a number which isn't a premium number nor a service number."
So, that is my question - why so high and why not included in packages?
10 REPLIES
Community Veteran
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Re: Very high cost of calling 05603 numbers, which Plusnet excludes but BT include

For the same reason as calls to other Plusnet numbers are free even if you have no calls package.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
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racquel
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Registered: 21-11-2008

Re: Very high cost of calling 05603 numbers, which Plusnet excludes but BT include

G1 VOIP numbers are unusually excluded and also unusually expensive "for the same reason as calls to other Plusnet numbers are free even if you have no calls package."
?Huh
You've completely lost me! Explain?
Moderator
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Re: Very high cost of calling 05603 numbers, which Plusnet excludes but BT include

the  g21 numbers are bt to bt call and included, just like Pn to pn calls are free but BT to PN aren't.

Customer / Moderator / If it helped click the thumb / If it fixed it click 'This fixed my problem'

racquel
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Re: Very high cost of calling 05603 numbers, which Plusnet excludes but BT include

G21 is the classification for all VOIP numbers starting 0560. My VOIP provider (Voipfone) and number is nothing to do with BT.
What does this have to do with BT to BT calls?
I probably didn't explain very well - I am using PLUSNET to call a VOIP number provided by VOIPFONE.
Forget I mentioned BT! I just used their price list as an example to show that other telcos don't charge.
pwatson
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Re: Very high cost of calling 05603 numbers, which Plusnet excludes but BT include

From the BT Wholesale price list
[quote=https://www.btwholesale.com/assets/documents/Service_Provider_Price_List/WC_Section_36_Part_211_1_7_2015_v2.xlsx]
                                                                  Day    Eve     W/E
g21 - Calls to 03 and 05 numbers Operative Date:01-12-2014 5.465 2.246 1.345  (Prices per min and ex-VAT)


Communication companies are free to set their own prices above or below the wholesale price - BT Retail obviously choose to subsidise the 056x range whereas Plusnet do not...
Also note that your one hour call would actually cost £5.56 (60*0.09+0.16), not £9
Sky charge 11.5p/min + 16.9p connection (£7.07 for an hour) by the way... Wink

Community Veteran
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Re: Very high cost of calling 05603 numbers, which Plusnet excludes but BT include

I have a VoIP phone (Sipgate) - the number begins 01747 (i.e. my local exchange code). I suggest another route would be to ask the person you are calling why they have not opted for having an 01/02/03 number for their VoIP.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)
racquel
Grafter
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Registered: 21-11-2008

Re: Very high cost of calling 05603 numbers, which Plusnet excludes but BT include

Quote from: pwatson
From the BT Wholesale price list
[quote=https://www.btwholesale.com/assets/documents/Service_Provider_Price_List/WC_Section_36_Part_211_1_7_2015_v2.xlsx]
                                                                  Day    Eve     W/E
g21 - Calls to 03 and 05 numbers Operative Date:01-12-2014 5.465 2.246 1.345  (Prices per min and ex-VAT)



Looking just one row above in that very same list:
Quote
TYPE OF CALL				Operative Date			Day	Eve	W/e	Min	Setup
national Operative Date:01-10-2014 5.044 5.020 5.016 3.000 5.0
g21 - Calls to 03 and 05 numbers Operative Date:01-12-2014 5.465 2.246 1.345 0 0

So the "regular" number is more expensive in all cases than the g21 number.
Quote from: pwatson
Communication companies are free to set their own prices above or below the wholesale price - BT Retail obviously choose to subsidise the 056x range whereas Plusnet do not...

But who is talking about subsidising? I was talking about why they were excluded from inclusive calls.
Quote from: pwatson
Also note that your one hour call would actually cost £5.56 (60*0.09+0.16), not £9

My bad - I was looking at the "90 min" column thinking it was the "1 hour" column.
Quote from: pwatson
Sky charge 11.5p/min + 16.9p connection (£7.07 for an hour) by the way... Wink

Again, this was about numbers being excluded. Sky INCLUDE g21 calls. So, in the case we are talking about, they, like BT, would be free.
Anyway, I got a reply from Plusnet:
Quote
We have never included Voip numbers into our call plans.  As we are a separate company to BT Retail, we offer different plans and services.  We charge for these calls as they are classed as a non-geographic number, and they don't fall into the "local rate" category.

But they DO include VOIP numbers - I purchased a "geographical" 01276 VOIP number and an 0330 VOIP number, both for £2/month to test. I now have 3 VOIP numbers which all terminate in the same place and way.
I made test calls to all 3 from Pluset: the 0330 and 01276 numbers were all charged as expected, ie: free, included.
It "cost" plusnet 10.016 pence for the first minute.
The 0560 was charged by Plusnet at 25p for the first minute. And yet, it "cost" plusnet only 1.345 per minute.
Meaning that although 0560 numbers have a significantly lower cost to Plusnet, they are charged at infinitely higher rates for inclusive call packages.
And they answered the wrong question - what have "local calls" got do with anything? They., as a charging concept, haven't existed for ... how many years?
Voipfone are insisting that OFCOM say the description should be "same as national rate", most large Telcos except Plusnet honour this.
For a regular weekend call, of 17 companies compared, Plusnet was the third most expensive; only Vodafone and TalkTalk charged more.
BT, Sky, Hive and Fuel charge them as a regular call.
Phone Coop, SSE, EE and Virgin would be between 75p an hour.
Another anomoly: That official BT wholesale list describes g21 as "calls to 03 and 05 numbers".
Whereas Telecom-Tarrifs describes it as B4 rate.
08UK says "0300, 0330, 0333, 0370 or 0345 numbers (in fact any 03 number) they are all the same price to call as if you were calling an 01 or 02 landline"
Doesn't this all seem like an anomoly that needs correcting? It doesn't even seem that any 3 companies can decide what tariff it is.
Or there's another possibility - the Plusnet are taking their customers for mugs and pretending that VOIP calls are some kind of mystery voodoo technology and just taking the... surely not?!
Might this be worth a letter to OFCOM to clarify? Or maybe something for a consumer show to be interested in? Any thoughts, PM me or reply here!
Community Veteran
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Registered: 31-08-2007

Re: Very high cost of calling 05603 numbers, which Plusnet excludes but BT include

You could try writing to OFCOM. Give them something to do that might benefit the end user!
Mal08
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Re: Very high cost of calling 05603 numbers, which Plusnet excludes but BT include

I was told here that you can port your existing landline number to VoIP ? - would that alter things?
Community Veteran
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Re: Very high cost of calling 05603 numbers, which Plusnet excludes but BT include

That varies from VoIP provider to provider. With Sipgate they give you lists of numbers on your exchange code you can pick if you are on a residential basic account. On a business account you can port your number across but there is a fee.
Either way, once you have a 01/02/03 number, calls to that number will be charged at standard landline rates (and included in call packages).
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
Line rental: Pulse 8 Home Line Rental (£13/month)
Mobile: iD mobile (£4/month)