Call Barring Charges

[#1]

Quote from: Anotherone

I'm surprised to hear that, all the call charges are pretty clear from the links on the main web page, and there are links to Ts&Cs as well. Did you not see them when you signed up? If you weren't on an anytime call package, surely you didn't expect to get your daytime calls for free?

I don't understand your position here other than someone who likes to kick people when they're down.
Call charges are found on the main website.
T&Cs are found on the main website.
NOWHERE is there mention of a "Call Barring Charge".  A brief search also fails to give any definition of  "credit limits" either.. none that I would constitute a well set out term to be regarded as a fair term under contract law.
There is only this mention of a charge of £5.76:
  "Providing a restricted service
3.We may restrict your service if you do not pay your bill or where unapproved attachments have been made to your line. We will charge you £5.76 to apply/or lift any of these restrictions."
 
  This terms states that the charge will ONLY be applied when the service is restricted and that a restriction is only made if you do not pay your bill or an unapproved attachment is made to the line. Nothing to do with credit limits at all !
  Vague or implied terms just don't have legal standing. You can't apply a charge stated to be for one thing and apply it in another situation that is not in the terms. That is a charge outside of the contract I'm afraid and unchargable.
Please show me where it is mentioned that this charge is applicable to going over a "credit limit" ..

[#2]

http://www.plus.net/support/phone/credit-limit-and-top-ups-guide.shtml

[#3]

Quote from: Oldjim

http://www.plus.net/support/phone/credit-limit-and-top-ups-guide.shtml

An explanation of something that is outside of the contract is all well and good.
If it's not in the contract (T&Cs and referenced documents in the T&Cs) then it isn't a legally binding part of the service.
Moreover the charges complained about aren't part of the contract either and so these charges appear to be outside of the contract and therefore optional.

[#4]

posts split off from original thread as it is a topic of more general contractual liability

[#5]

from the T&C

Quote

26  We will generally not suspend or end the service or the agreement until 14 days after your payment was due, unless the service terms or the price guide say otherwise. However, sometimes we may take this action earlier. For example, when you reach your credit limit.

From the Price Guide - linked from the T&C's

Quote

3.We may restrict your service if you do not pay your bill or where unapproved attachments have been made to your line. We will charge you £5.76 to apply/or lift any of these restrictions.

[#6]

Quote from: Oldjim

posts split off from original thread as it is a topic of more general contractual liability

Hmm... My posts only make sense in reference to the original post regarding the charges the original OP was questioning.
The post was relating to the OP's contractual liability to pay those charges.
It was intended to provide information to the OP to help with their query and for Plusnet to respond to either rectify the matter or show where these charges were shown in the contract terms.

[#7]

Quote from: Oldjim

from the T&C Quote 26  We will generally not suspend or end the service or the agreement until 14 days after your payment was due, unless the service terms or the price guide say otherwise. However, sometimes we may take this action earlier. For example, when you reach your credit limit. From the Price Guide - linked from the T&C's Quote 3.We may restrict your service if you do not pay your bill or where unapproved attachments have been made to your line. We will charge you £5.76 to apply/or lift any of these restrictions.

Thanks Oldjim but this is exactly the same as I also posted up in my original reply (see the first post in this new thread).

[#8]

Quote from: Oldjim

from the T&C Quote 26  We will generally not suspend or end the service or the agreement until 14 days after your payment was due, unless the service terms or the price guide say otherwise. However, sometimes we may take this action earlier. For example, when you reach your credit limit. From the Price Guide - linked from the T&C's Quote 3.We may restrict your service if you do not pay your bill or where unapproved attachments have been made to your line. We will charge you £5.76 to apply/or lift any of these restrictions.

The term with the £5.76 charge states that the charge will ONLY be applied when the service is restricted and that a restriction is only made if you do not pay your bill or an unapproved attachment is made to the line. Nothing to do with credit limits at all !
 Vague or implied terms just don't have legal standing.
  You can't apply a charge specifically stated to be for one thing and apply it to another willy-nilly. That is a charge outside of the contract I'm afraid and unchargable.

[#9]

The OP was or should have been very clear that he was liable for the charges having incurred them in the past so throwing up spurious contractual matters in the thread would only confuse things.
This was why I split them off so that you could continue to discuss legal points - of course you may not agree with that but I am sure that the Plusnet legal eagles will have covered all the bases

[#10]

Did you even read what I posted before responding

Quote

26  We will generally not suspend or end the service or the agreement until 14 days after your payment was due, unless the service terms or the price guide say otherwise. However, sometimes we may take this action earlier. For example, when you reach your credit limit.

[#11]

Quote from: Oldjim

The OP was or should have been very clear that he was liable for the charges having incurred them in the past so throwing up spurious contractual matters in the thread would only confuse things. This was why I split them off so that you could continue to discuss legal points - of course you may not agree with that but I am sure that the Plusnet legal eagles will have covered all the bases

He was asking WHY he was considered liable for these charges.
I was stating how it didn't seem that he was unless shown otherwise.

[#12]

Quote from: Oldjim

Did you even read what I posted before responding Quote 26  We will generally not suspend or end the service or the agreement until 14 days after your payment was due, unless the service terms or the price guide say otherwise. However, sometimes we may take this action earlier. For example, when you reach your credit limit.

Haha... Yes of course I did.
Did you understand my post? Sorry, I probably wasn't being clear enough.
Look at the two terms.
The first says that we may suspend your services when you reach your credit limit.
The second says that this £5.76 charge will ONLY apply if your services are restricted due to not paying your bill.
It does not say that this £5.76 charge will apply if your services are restricted due to reaching your credit limit.
Quite specific and I'm sure the legal eagles will have written this term very specifically and I'm sure it won't have been an oversight.
Therefore it must surely be intended to be quite specific.

[#13]

There is also a discrepency between the terms 'suspend or end' and 'restrict' so are these terms even referencing the same specific action? There's a reference later too to 'suspend or end' that yet again leaves a different impression as to the meaning of 'suspend' implying it could be different to 'restrict'.
Often in T&Cs there is a definition of terms at the begining to make sure both parties can be sure what is being talked about.
The Plusnet terms don't seem to do this for some reason. I'm sure there must be a sound reason for this as I'm sure the legal eagles will have it all perfectly covered.

[#14]

Quote from: Jameseh

That's not correct I'm afraid. As the terms and conditions are available on the website, you would either have had to agree to them during signup, or if signed up over the phone you would have had 10 days to review them online. What specifically is it cost wise that is making you move elsewhere? Your calls are a split between mobile and uk daytime calls which aren't covered on your call plan.  I am uncertain how or why you feel that we have misled you. The charges are all valid as stated on our website.

I have looked at the terms and conditions and the related charges.
There is no mention of the £5.76 in relation to going over the credit limit. There is only a specific reference to this charge when related to not paying your bill:
From the Price Guide - linked from the T&C's

Quote

3.We may restrict your service if you do not pay your bill or where unapproved attachments have been made to your line. We will charge you £5.76 to apply/or lift any of these restrictions.

The term is quite specific that this is only incurred "if you do not pay your bill or where unapproved attachments have been made to your line".
There is no mention of a £5.76 charge when your account is restricted due to reaching a credit limit.
Unless this is specifically stated elsewhere?

[#15]

So can anyone from Plusnet either confirm that call baring charges are valid for going over your credit limit?
It would appear from the terms and conditions and price guides (unless quickly changed in the last few days!) that they are NOT.