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Plusnet to charge cease fee for LLU migration

g1000
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Plusnet to charge cease fee for LLU migration

On 20th June 2015, OFCOM's new industry-wide migration process comes into effect.
The current Plusnet Fibre T&Cs say the cease fee does not apply if you follow a recognised transfer process:

  • "A broadband cease charge, as set out in the price guide, is payable if you cease your Plusnet service and do not request and use a migration access code (MAC), or another recognised transfer process to move to another service provider."


New T&Cs come into effect 20th June 2015. Plusnet have removed the protection of using a recognised migration process, and instead say customers will be charged a cease fee if they move to a provider on a different network:

  • A broadband cease charge, as set out in the Price guide, is payable if you choose to end your agreement for the service, and your service is ceased or you are switching your service to another provider on a different network. You will not have to pay this charge if you are moving home and we are unable to provide the service at the new UK address.

18 REPLIES
Community Veteran
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Re: Plusnet to charge cease fee for LLU migration

Surely this depends on the definition of 'a different network'.
LLU providers still use the BT openreach copper (and FTTC) network.  Virgin Media Cable, for example does not.
Unless or until this definition is specified it remains unclear.
Call me 'w23'
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g1000
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Re: Plusnet to charge cease fee for LLU migration

Elsewhere in the T&Cs reference is made to “BT or any other network operator”, thereby defining LLU as a different network.
If Plusnet do say there is no cease fee for LLU migration, then great! They need to amend the term to state something like “a different provider not on the Openreach copper network”.
As it stands, I really don’t fancy anyone’s chances of ringing up support and arguing that Sky aren’t on a different network to Plusnet!
Community Gaffer
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Re: Plusnet to charge cease fee for LLU migration

The cease fee is related to the type of order the gaining provider places and is directly related to whether we get charged a wholesale cease fee or not. If the gaining provider places the orders and the cease code is W or P then they are the ones we charge for.
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 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
g1000
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Re: Plusnet to charge cease fee for LLU migration

It's a straightforward question for Plusnet:

  • "A broadband cease charge, as set out in the Price guide, is payable if you choose to end your agreement for the service, and your service is ceased or you are switching your service to another provider on a different network. You will not have to pay this charge if you are moving home and we are unable to provide the service at the new UK address."


If I migrate to LLU is this a switch to another provider on different network? Yes or No.
These are the terms and conditions we as customers are bound by, nothing else.
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Re: Plusnet to charge cease fee for LLU migration

YES and NO
It depends on whether the LLU operator does the move via a migration or via a cease and reprovide
g1000
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Re: Plusnet to charge cease fee for LLU migration

Quote from: Chris
The cease fee is related to the type of order the gaining provider places and is directly related to whether we get charged a wholesale cease fee or not. If the gaining provider places the orders and the cease code is W or P then they are the ones we charge for.

Nope, this only relates to when "your service is ceased".
We are discussing the new additional term for 20th June 2015 where a fee is payable (not may be payable) if "you are switching your service to another provider on a different network".
g1000
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Re: Plusnet to charge cease fee for LLU migration

Quote from: Oldjim
YES and NO
It depends on whether the LLU operator does the move via a migration or via a cease and reprovide

Nonsense. Either the provider is on a different network to Plusnet or it is on the same network to Plusnet. How it is switched cannot change this fact.
Community Veteran
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Re: Plusnet to charge cease fee for LLU migration

Yes it does
If it is a move via a cease and reprovide that is seen as a cease by BTwholesale and they then charge Plusnet a cease fee which they pass on
The previous clause was
Quote
If you choose to end your agreement for the service and you do not request and use a migration access code (MAC), or do not use another recognised migration process you will be subject to the broadband cease charge as shown in the price guide. You will not have to pay this charge if you are moving home and we are unable to provide the service at the new UK address.
Community Gaffer
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Re: Plusnet to charge cease fee for LLU migration

Every time a line is moved from us it is 'ceased' from our service. The type of cease code we receive determines whether we pass the charge on for this.
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 Chris Parr
 Plusnet Staff
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Re: Plusnet to charge cease fee for LLU migration

Quote from: g1000
Nonsense. Either the provider is on a different network to Plusnet or it is on the same network to Plusnet. How it is switched cannot change this fact.

Nonsense! It is totally outside of Plusnet's control. If the gaining provider does a migration Plusnet don't get charged a termination fee, if they cease the existing service and provide a new service Plusnet get charged a fee.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
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Re: Plusnet to charge cease fee for LLU migration

This is the relevant part of BTwholesale charges https://www.btwholesale.com/assets/documents/Service_Provider_Price_List/Section44_Part3_08_Sep_14_A...
Quote
General Description
Cease charges will apply when a BT Wholesale ADSL End User service is terminated or replaced by a non-BT Wholesale  ADSL End User service  (cease and re-provide).

A cease charge will be raised under the following circumstances:
• The Service Provider raises a cease order.
• The Service Provider asks BT Wholesale to raise a cease order on their behalf.
• Openreach issue an unsolicited cease because the PSTN service has been terminated.
A cease charge will not be raised in the following circumstances:
• The End User line has been migrated to another ADSL service provider using the published migration process.
• The End User line has been migrated to an LLU operator (either SMPF or MPF) using the published migration process.
• When End User service is migrated to another BT Wholesale ADSL service and / or to another Communications Provider (CP) where a MAC code is used.
g1000
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Re: Plusnet to charge cease fee for LLU migration

The new term says a cease fee is payable (not may be payable) simply when you "are switching your service to a different provider on another network".
It doesn't say "AND if a cease code W or P is generated" / "AND if the gaining provider switches using a cease and reprovide" / "And if BT Wholesale charge Plusnet a cease fee in the process".
I understand what you are saying Chris, Oldjim, jelv.
But we then come full circle, and this then that means Plusnet's new T&C is wrong. It is in everybody's interests for these things to be correct, isn't it? Especially for the customer who when faced with a charge can only legally appeal to the T&Cs, they cannot rely on what Oldjim said in a forum one time.
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Re: Plusnet to charge cease fee for LLU migration

It would be possibly be better if the T&Cs said a fee WILL be charged, but may be waived in some circumstances.
jelv (a.k.a Spoon Whittler)
   Why I have left Plusnet (warning: long post!)   
Broadband: Andrews & Arnold Home::1 (FTTC 80/20)
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g1000
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Re: Plusnet to charge cease fee for LLU migration

How about "A cease fee is payable if you switch provider and the gaining provider uses an order type which triggers a cease fee from our wholesaler.”
I've taken that from the words Chris used. If he can set out the policy simply like that, then the official T&C should match.
As is stands, Plusnet from 20th June 2015 will have legal carte blanche to charge any customer a fee, no matter what, just because they migrate to LLU.
If Plusnet want to tell me this is not their policy, then they should amend the T&C and let this do the talking.