Please answer this Plusnet

[#1]

Plusnet changed the terms and conditions 20th June 2015 (without telling me). My new term for fibre says: "A broadband cease charge, as set out in the Price guide, is payable if you choose to end your agreement for the service, and your service is ceased or you are switching your service to another provider on a different network."
Plusnet wrote this new term. Before I accept it, I have a right to know what is meant by "a different network". Does it mean different to the Openreach network (e.g. Virgin)? Different to the BT Wholesale network (e.g. Sky LLU)?
I want an official response please, after confirmation from the person(s) who came up with this new term. It is not for my amusement, I have been considering leaving my Plusnet contract and now potentially have new charges hanging over my head which I need clarification on thanks. Terms should be clearly written and understandable to the consumer in the first place, really.

[#2]

Good afternoon, I can not see anywhere where we have changed our pricing. We have not changed our pricing policies since October 2014.
When it comes to your account the terms and conditions are set out on Ticket: 101076495, which gives you the contract length and the amount per month which is remaining should you choose to end your contract early.

Quote from: g1000

Plusnet wrote this new term. Before I accept it, I have a right to know what is meant by "a different network". Does it mean different to the Openreach network (e.g. Virgin)? Different to the BT Wholesale network (e.g. Sky LLU)?

A different network is a provider which is not Plusnet, we are your network provider and BT Wholesale network are our suppliers.

[#3]

Quote

A different network is a provider which is not Plusnet

Now that is exactly why g1000 asked for a formal response!. In the past a cease charge is only made when migrating away from the BT copper network, usually to Virgin cable, although some transfers to LLU seem to cause confusion as to whether a cease charge is applicable. 

[#4]

"A broadband cease charge, as set out in the Price guide, is payable if you choose to end your agreement for the service, and your service is ceased or you are switching your service to another provider on a different network."

Quote from: joclark

A different network is a provider which is not Plusnet, we are your network provider and BT Wholesale network are our suppliers.

.
The response doesn't exactly seem consistent with what Chris is saying here: http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,140607.msg1239842.html#msg1239842 and http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,140607.msg1239857.html#msg1239857

Quote from: Chris

The cease fee is related to the type of order the gaining provider places and is directly related to whether we get charged a wholesale cease fee or not. If the gaining provider places the orders and the cease code is W or P then they are the ones we charge for.

Quote from: Chris

Every time a line is moved from us it is 'ceased' from our service. The type of cease code we receive determines whether we pass the charge on for this.

[#5]

@joclark
This is precisely why I said "I want an official response please, after confirmation from the person(s) who came up with this new term".
Your response seems wrong to me. Everybody now has a £30 charge if they leave Plusnet, no matter who they migrate to? Really?
If correct, then every customer in a contract should have been notified about the change to this term, which is new for 20th June 2015 ("These Terms and Conditions are in effect from 20th June 2015"). I have a copy of the old T&Cs and I check these things before I enter a contract so I know.
If true, then every customer should also now be given the chance to reject these T&Cs and leave their contract penalty-free as the change is likely to cause material disadvantage to the customer.
By the way, the price guide did also change on 17th June 2015, I know because Plusnet messed it up and I am asking them to resolve that too.

[#6]

Quote from: joclark

Ticket: 101076495, which gives you the contract length and the amount per month which is remaining should you choose to end your contract early.

Haha, that's the first time I've seen that tucked away. The early termination charge per month on that ticket is totally wrong, an overcharge. It's also totally different to the cancellation amount on my portal (which was more than 18*the other amount several months into my contract!). And this in turn is totally different to what I should be charged, which is detailed in black and white in the price guide I signed up to, £6.20 per month, and confirmed by MattyC and billing http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,139625.msg1239454.html#msg1239454 after I requested it was amended. And this in turn is totally different to the new charge as detailed in the mesed-up price guide that came into force 17th June 2015!
Forgive me if I'm not all smiles and cheers, what a sorry state of affairs Plusnet is.
That is all to do with cancellation charges though, which I have another thread open for http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,139625.0.html.
This thread is specifically for the new T&C on the cease fee, thanks.

[#7]

Oh, and I have not received a single apology in any way, shape or form for Plusnet's errors in this regard. How do you think that makes a customer feel? 

[#8]

Jo's response isn't 100% correct, I'll flag this to her. Sorry for any confusion.

Quote from: Chris

The cease fee is related to the type of order the gaining provider places and is directly related to whether we get charged a wholesale cease fee or not. If the gaining provider places the orders and the cease code is W or P then they are the ones we charge for.

[#9]

Quote from: Chris

Jo's response isn't 100% correct

Translation - Jo was wrong.

Quote from: Chris

The cease fee is related to the type of order the gaining provider places and is directly related to whether we get charged a wholesale cease fee or not. If the gaining provider places the orders and the cease code is W or P then they are the ones we charge for.

Translation - BTW have a system that isn't transparent to end customers and allows us to make it up as we go along.
Chris - How about writing a definitive statement, in plain english, that clears this up once and for all?

[#10]

If the gaining provider uses the right process and follows the new switching procedures then the £30 won't be charged. If they place the wrong type of order, resulting in the line being stopped or ceased during the transfer we get charged and therefore pass this on. There's not much more clarity I can give than that.

[#11]

Quote from: Chris

There's not much more clarity I can give than that.

How about answering the question?
Sorry to be blunt, but I'm pretty sick of you not answering the question. At least Jo had an attempt at answering the question. Don't you understand why it is is important you answer the question and address the new T&C? I feel like making a formal complaint about you. I'm really annoyed that Plusnet are making me lose my usual politeness and patience. As far as I'm concerned, I have just got another answer that can't be trusted. I stressed I would like the person(s) who wrote the new term to be consulted and my question answered. Let me give you a hint: the answer should begin with "a different network is defined as...".
Your answer is a logical contradiction to the terms and conditions by the way, so it cannot possibly be true unless Plusnet are openly breaching their own terms and conditions. The new term says a cease fee is payable if "you are switching your service to another provider on a different network". How it gets switched cannot possibly affect whether it is on a different network or not! The new provider is either on a different network or it isn't.

[#12]

@Chris
In that case, should your terms and conditions around the broadband cease charge not make that clear? After all, if even Plunet staff get it (very) wrong, then what chance do your customers stand???

[#13]

What question haven't I answered? I have given as much detail as I can on when the charges are passed on. Yes the T&C's state 'a different network' and I've flagged up that this doesn't seem to be hugely clear.

Quote

How it gets switched cannot possibly affect whether it is on a different network or not! The new provider is either on a different network or it isn't.

If the line is stopped or ceased, it technically isn't being switched so the charge is applicable.

[#14]

Quote from: Chris

What question haven't I answered? I have given as much detail as I can on when the charges are passed on. Yes the T&C's state 'a different network' and I've flagged up that this doesn't seem to be hugely clear. Quote How it gets switched cannot possibly affect whether it is on a different network or not! The new provider is either on a different network or it isn't. If the line is stopped or ceased, it technically isn't being switched so the charge is applicable.

Let me take you through this slowly. The new term for fibre says you pay a cease fee "if your service is ceased" OR "you are switching your service to another provider on a different network"
You are failing to answer my question which is about 'switching to another provider on a different network'. The question is 'what is meant by a different network'?
Telling me about when a service is ceased does not help me understand when the other part applies.
In fact, we have a big conundrum now. According to your information the other part never applies since only when the line is ceased is there a fee! Or to put it the other way, by your definition of switching, there is never a cease and never a fee when switching, so how can the specific case of switching to a different network possibly involve a fee? Do you see the problem here?