Failed Billing

[#1]

@luk 

Thank you.  Just to be crystal, you got

The server and web page could not be reached

Rather than

Connection refused

?

And you are using safe guarding...

I will go an ask more questions!

[#2]

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@Townman wrote:

@luk 

Thank you.  Just to be crystal, you got

The server and web page could not be reached

Rather than

Connection refused

?

And you are using safe guarding...

I will go an ask more questions!

To confirm this page appeared when 'Web Browsing Interception' was enabled on the wifi router.  When I disabled this option, the locally hosted error page was no longer displayed, but any further attempt to reach plus.net or plus.net/pay simply timed out without any error message displayed on this occasion.

Yes, SafeGuard was enabled at the time of this issue.  I manually entered the main (non SafeGuard) name server details on my connected device (not the router) to test if SafeGuard was causing the connection issue with the payment page, and I was still unable to reach plus.net or plus.net/pay

I would say that in the event of restrictions being applied again, next time I will telnet in to the router and manually enter the main plusnet name server details to test if this has any positive result.  That being said, I really hope that restrictions won't be applied again.

I would really appreciate it if you would be so kind as to share my experiences and evidence directly with INFOPS-4864 (as raised on 26th March) to assist with the ongoing fault finding.

I also attach a screen capture of the error generated when trying to process payment on my account, as mentioned in my earlier post.

I am putting an awful lot of time into trying to help with resolving this ongoing issue, supplying the information and evidence being requested.  Please understand and appreciate that I am really disappointed that currently this seems to be a one way stream.  PlusNet are hopefully benefiting from my posts and learning from the experiences being shared via this platform along with the concerns raised, but in return all I'm getting is upset and continued frustration from those who should be in a position to not only keep me happy and satisfied as a customer, but to promptly resolve this issue by one means or another.  Although I am taking the time to respond to you Townman, when my connection allows, I am also panicking and quite concerned about the seriousness of what's actually happening behind the scenes.  If you take a look at "Question #191222280 - Your Feedback" for example, I hope you will understand and appreciate that this communication did nothing to restore my faith, trust and confidence in plusnet.  It left me concerned that through no fault of my own, plusnet are going to be taking action against me even though I have made every effort to try and process a payment, something which doesn't seem to have even been acknowledged in that ticket.  It would be helpful to me if this situation could be resolved once and for all in good time to everyone's satisfaction.  I really don't want anyone else to ever have to go through this same experience.

I am grateful to you Townman for working with me to collate the evidence and my experiences to try and diagnose and understand the variables contributing these ongoing issues, and I am keeping my fingers crossed that this will soon have a positive outcome, not just for myself, but for all those stuck in the same loop with the same ongoing billing issues. I am keen to help improve the user experience, and I hope that some, if not all, of what I have shared here will go some way to ensuring lessons will be learned and that other customers won't be left feeling the same way that I do right now.

---

[#3]

Thank you for all the information. Just to be clear I am not PlusNET, just one of the super user customers who have a knack of recognising potential patterns.

Users are saying generically that they are being restricted / cannot access - in looking at the detail I think there are 4 different symptoms which might have different causes. Whilst the end results are not dissimilar the different symptoms need clear articulation to direct investigation.

The SG angle is interesting!!

[#4]

@Optimatts  / @RandallFlagg or any other staffer - could you please catch this request...

I would really appreciate it if you would be so kind as to share my experiences and evidence directly with INFOPS-4864 (as raised on 26th March) to assist with the ongoing fault finding.

Thank you.

@luk 

The feedback from elsewhere doubts that Safe Guarding has any bearing here, however to me it looks evident that there is a network issue here.  Sometimes to get to the bottom of a problem one needs to "look away from the problem"!

just one of the super user customers who have a knack of recognising potential patterns

That might lead to "off the wall" thinking … you are using a TG582n (I really love that router but sadly had to retire it a while ago) are you also by any chance using Win10?

If yes, then I'd like to look at a very different angle here - the combination of router, OS and the address resolution splash page from the router, has the potential of being something rather different to what has been looked into.  I might be clutching at straws, but I suggest that we (at least) seek to eliminate the possibility.  I am wondering if you are getting a dose of this - https://community.plus.net/t5/ADSL-Broadband/198-18-1-x-address-problems/m-p/1494909#M319429 - it is a very long topic, so I'm pointing you towards the end.

Let us first see if this plays into your experience - if you attempt to ping (or tracert) the URL which you cannot access and get an IP address like 198.18.1.X then we need to take a very different perspective on this one!!

If you are up for using telnet to poke in the TG582n router - then please look at this post in that topic - https://community.plus.net/t5/ADSL-Broadband/198-18-1-x-address-problems/m-p/1171184#M279850 - there in you will find reference to TG582n DNS query commands to examine and manipulate the spoofed IP address list.

Further down from there, you'll see some of my diagnostics looking at the Windows DNS cache which can also indicate address resolution issues.

In short if (for whatever set of causing conditions) your PC starts to believe that an internet resource it seeks to access is on a 198.18.1.x IP address it simply will not work - ever.  There can be real confusion with this scenario, because you can have one web browser tab which does not work and another which does work AT THE SAME time.

This might be a complete red herring, but I would like to be very sure that when you get a connection time out, that you are not having a connection time out due to a spoofed IP address provided by the TG582n router.  Sorry but this one is rather technical - let us see if this is 'in play' then we can sort out further mitigation.

[#5]

I asked my complaints handler whether this problem could be resolved by migrating over to a new account to effectively start again.  It seems like a reasonable solution and/or request to make given the current upset and frustration you (plusnet) are causing me

As this issue is not account specific but is related to the payment method I feel that it is unlikely that setting up a new account will allow you to make payments via a card.

I take, from this, that you are effectively blaming me as a customer for this ongoing issue due to the payment method?

That wouldn't be so much of an issue if you actually allowed me to change the payment method, update the payment method or even process a payment.  But even that isn't functioning correctly.

Note that this error message appears when trying to change/update payment details in the member centre.  The message suggests I was trying to make a payment rather than update details.

It was my understanding, from this forum, that plusnet acknowledge there is an ongoing issue with billing, and those affected would have billing suspended with it being resumed after a fix is applied to the account - and at that stage three months of payment would be due.  Is this correct?  If so why can't that same offer be applied to my account?  What's different about my case?

May I refer you back to the complaints ticket response of 26th March:

After some considerable searching I have located the internal fault on your account preventing the Continuous Card payment processing per month. I have now raised this to an internal faults team and they will, now your account has been specifically flagged, apply the fix to your account once the issue has been fully rectified. Meaning that, and I will be as brutally honest with you here, given your significant loyalty as a customer I will speak to your like a member of our family - I have no idea when this will be resolved.

These are not always simple resolutions and can take a few months, so I will say prepare yourself for the fact we may have to continue in the same vain for a little while. Please be assured though now it has been diagnosed fully, the correct back office team are now specifically looking at your account too in regards to a resolution.

What I would like to offer you, if it is agreeable to yourself, a # credit as an apology for the continued hassle you have been through and hopefully to show how much this does matter to us - without loyal customers like yourself our company would be a very different place and I am continually grateful for your patience and offers of help in the progression of resolutions to accounts. It what makes you such a good egg and a pleasure to aid you in any way I can.

I did appreciate that very open and honest answer, and it's a real shame that all this time later, the good work and kind response of that CSC Analyst has effectively been ignored or overlooked by the current complaints handler who, like I say, suggested today that I change payment method in order to resolve this issue.  His message concludes by saying...

I understand that this may not be satisfactory for you, you would therefore have the option of presenting your case to our alternative dispute resolution provider Ombudsman Services.

The complaints handler tells me that if I am unable to change payment method, I would have to call in every month to process payment:

Otherwise you would need to call in order to make this payment.

Whilst this issue is being investigated we are unable to provide a date as to when this matter will be resolved. Please accept my apologies for any inconvenience this matter may have caused.

Previous experience would suggest that even if I do phone in to make a payment, even the customer services team are unable to process a payment on my account:

When trying to take this payment from yourself I was unable to do but I have raised this due to it's an issue we are experiencing where we are faced with an empty assignment key when trying to take payment.

So, where does this leave me? I think the best endorsement of any business should be if customers are happy to recommend their services to others. Certainly at the moment, with the exception of that one honest answer from the decent CSC Analyst, the vast majority of the responses received to the open ticket have been far from satisfactory, and certainly not what I would expect from a company which supposedly prides itself in excellent customer service. To quote your own slogan, I just want you, plusnet, to do me proud. I had an excellent relationship with you up until the start of this dreadful billing experience, and now I'm left full of dread, having chosen to be a customer of yours, fear of what is going to happen next, and upset that you clearly don't value my custom or continued support any more. Let's be absolutely clear about this - I want to pay, I want to ensure that all monies owed are paid and processed, and I am disappointed that your systems are preventing this from happening. Surely it's in your best interest to come up with and offer an amicable solution without having to put me through even further stress of going to the next stage.

I would understand the need to go to the ombudsman if this was an isolated case, but given the frequent posts of a similar nature from others going through the same problems, I can, at least, take some comfort knowing that I am by no means alone with this.

Please don't take this a as complaint about the complaints handler.  With the way things are at the moment, I certainly wouldn't want to be in his position of having to deal with and respond to the same issues over and over again with no end date in sight.  My main criticism here is that despite evidence being presented, despite many acknowledgements that the problem is your end, to this very day you still seem unable and maybe even unwilling to find a quick and amicable solution, and the responses to the issue feel somewhat impersonal and generic.  Perhaps, given the apparent severity of what's going wrong within the billing system, another alternative would be to allow those affected to pay by cheque, or even offer another non-digital way of paying.

And currently, for me, plus.net/pay shows the following error:

[#6]

Hi @luk,

I'm very sorry for the length of time that this payment problem has been ongoing and for any inconvenience caused. I can confirm that our billing team have advised us that if we set up a new account when customers experience this kind of problem it is more than likely that the problem will carry over to the new account. However, I have not been made aware that the payment method would cause the billing issues and I am not sure who gave your case handler this information.

I'm sorry that you've not been offered the option to have the billing suspended on your account and that you've been told that you'll need to call in every day. Our billing team should be able to do this for you and would unsuspend the billing once the issue is resolved. If the account is suspended for over 90 days, we would only bill you for the previous 90 days and any charges that are incurred prior to that will be written off. We would also be able to offer a payment plan so that you're not having to pay a large amount. Please let us know if you would be happy for us to suspend the billing on the account.

[#7]

Hi @luk 

Though I can see that you are very unhappy with the difficulty in paying your account (that needs attention from staff), it would be useful to also rule out the possibility of the odd interaction between TG582n routers and Win10 seen elsewhere.  This known issue has the potential for giving the appearance of internet connectivity issues, when in fact none exist.

However, it would be understandable if you do not have the patience to do this either now … or later.

[#8]

@EmilyD I would certainly be incredibly grateful if you would be so kind as to implement that, and if you could kindly send a message or letter through to confirm this has been actioned for my own peace of mind, I would appreciate that. If it's okay with yourself, I would like to send you a private message to add a little bit more detail as to why this is causing me so much frustration and upset at the moment.

@Townman If it's okay with your good self too, I will also send you a message, which will give you a better idea of where I am at currently, but for the record, where there's an opportunity to help out, I will continue to try and do so.

[#9]

Hi @luk, thanks for getting back to us. I have sent this request off to our Billing Team for you, though it will likely not be until after the weekend before we have a response on this. I have added an update to the ticket here mentioning that this request has been sent off for you and once we have a response back from this, will update this on the ticket also for you.

[#10]

Hi @luk I've done some further digging into this today and I suspect I know what the issue is or at least know a workaround which I hope works. We normally get "empty assignment key" when trying to take a payment from a stored card.

We should however be able to take the payment fine (I've started the payment process without finishing it, and it's not giving that error) if we take a payment over the phone entering all the card details again.

Alternatively setting up a direct debit instruction would work moving forward, I've also tried this and it seems to be working). I understand you may be reluctant to do this in case a bill is incorrect and you'll need to recall it however should this ever be necessary, you can request a payment recalled by your bank just like if you pay via Visa or MasterCard.

If an error is made in the payment of your Direct Debit by us or your bank or building society you are entitled to a full and immediate refund of the amount paid from your bank or building society

However to try to avoid hassle on both sides, for any disputes with a bill I'd firstly recommend contacting us as we're normally able to resolve this from our side bringing things to an amicable resolution.

Happy to call you back tomorrow to try to take the payment over the phone if you're free?

Hope this helps.

[#11]

Just an update for anyone following this whole thing - Plusnet have placed restrictions on my account again today, demanded payment via plus.net/pay but have once again rendered this impossible by preventing access to that page. You'll note that promises have been made to keep me informed via ticket as to the progress of the reasonable solution offered by a staff member on this forum last Friday, but as restrictions are back in place, I've now got absolutely no means of being able to access said ticket either. I don't know what you did @Gandalf but at no stage did I authorise you to start testing solutions on my account? Who asked you to do that? Words like "suspect" "hope" and "should" don't exactly fill me with confidence, I trust you will understand. I don't want hope, or should, I want good honest broadband with award winning customer services, in other words I want definite solutions that will work first time, every time and immediately if that's not too much to ask? I don't want to have to keep chasing, I don't want someone getting involved who, as you may recall, made exactly the same promises to me back in January of this year following a message on social media but failed to deliver what was promised, i.e. the ability to pay over the phone. The "amicable resolution" that was agreed was the one offered and promised on Friday. Had you have taken the time to engage with the two staff members involved in trying to action this request, you would've discovered why it is that their solution and request was best placed to my current circumstances. All you're doing plusnet is throwing undue stress and upset my way which is further contributing to what is already a very difficult and challenging time for me. You didn't do me proud at all. I know you have tried to help @Gandalf but I just wish you would've communicated with the other community staffers involved with this case before jumping in and trying to take control. In doing so you've led me back to exactly where I was on Sunday 16th, and indeed I will say January of this year. That in turn has reversed the good work and care the other community staff members have put into this, who went above and beyond to try and restore my faith, trust and confidence in Plusnet as a company. How much longer does this need to go on?

[#12]

Hi @luk, I can't see that Anoush made any changes on your account, however if there is a payment still outstanding on the account it's likely it just hit another payment reminder date where a splashscreen should display, despite it not displaying the splashscreen for you to acknowledge and continue browsing.

I've taken the appropriate action to ensure this has been lifted, but this is likely to continue happening until a payment has been made.

We've not had a response yet regarding suspending the billing account, however I'm not confident this will be accepted as there does appear to be an option to take a payment via the account, as per Anoush's response.

Would you be free any time today for myself, Anoush or another colleague on our team to give you a call to try and take a payment over the phone?

[#13]

When I get things wrong, I put my hands up and openly admit it. So this post is by way of apology to @Gandalf

I completely misinterpreted what you were trying to say via the forum, and wrongly assumed that you had tried to prove me wrong by stating that you had attempted, without concluding, a test payment using the details held on file for both credit card and/or direct debit. If you read back, I am sure you will appreciate and understand why it was that wires got crossed here. As restrictions were applied to the account soon after your message was posted, with your forum post in mind, I also thought you had generated a new failed billing error by testing, but not concluding, payment on the account. With the explanation offered by @HarryB I regret this was a misunderstanding on my part, and I apologise for wrongly blaming your good self. Although I believe that I have communicated with you in the past, I understand a different member of the social media team followed up on that query, so again, apologies for getting that wrong. I am truly really sorry about this.  Where the frustration is here is that all of the solutions offered, i.e. to try and take a payment over the phone, and to change payment type were all raised and attempted when this issue first became apparent on my account back in January of this year. And given the current circumstances I have shared with @EmilyD @LaurenB and @Townman you will appreciate that I am already currently rather fragile, frustrated and concerned, without having to add additional undue stress from plusnet to the mix. If one of you would be so kind as to share, via the open ticket, the current circumstances I informed you about on Friday, I think that might be helpful to have on the record officially.

Following on from the two most recent posts on here from both @Gandalf and @HarryB I can confirm that I got in touch with billing earlier today to try and resolve this ongoing issue once and for all. Payment for two outstanding months of service was processed over the phone manually, however there is still a issue with continuous card payment on the account which should hopefully be rectified soon. I am confident at the moment that should the issue continue, then the solution offered by EmilyD, and formally requested by LaurenB on Friday will hopefully be actioned.

Part of the upset here, if you read back over my posts on this forum, is that the issue wasn't nipped in the bud by either the complaints hander, or on March 26 when a CSC Analyst managed to identify the reason for the ongoing issues, and escalated this to internal faults to monitor. I'm certainly not complaining about the fantastic response the CSC Analyst gave me on that occasion as I was pleased and incredibly grateful for her honesty and acknowledgement of my offers to help, and that she picked up on my loyalty as a customer. It's a real shame that internal faults didn't suspend billing at this time bearing in mind the response offered by the CSC Analyst. I am confident that was merely an oversight on the analysts point of view, and given how difficult and challenging it must be dealing with so many queries on a daily basis, it's understandable that sometimes things get missed or forgotten. Where the problem arises here is that it's difficult to piece together all of the bits of the jigsaw, so to speak, when various tickets are opened due to the ongoing dialogue being closed due to inactivity. Going forward it would be useful to raise this as a suggestion to help improve the customer experience. Where there is the ability to quickly and effectively join together communication and issues regarding an ongoing problem, I feel this would really help. Also, as is evident here, the more staff members that participate in responding to an issue, whether that's due to the customer phoning in, new tickets raised due to an inactivity period on a previous ticket, or due to escalation to another department, the more fragmented the response and message becomes. Having everything together would surely help speed up the response time and hopefully lead to a better customer experience. Certainly with my experience in mind, it would have been helpful if there could have been a named contact in place, along with regular check ups for progress updates, and possibly even a dedicated number to phone in on, that would definitely have resulted in a much more positive experience here. As I have previously mentioned, with this specific case in mind, it's not very helpful if, say for example, a credit is applied to the account which would temporarily resolve the issue for a month or so, only for said issue to still be ongoing the following month. At this point a new ticket has to be raised asking for the existing ticket to be re-opened in order to allow contact with an existing named handler to be updated, and kept in the loop.

I trust that you will accept, and acknowledge, that with everything I have raised and shared, the level of response offered on occasions via tickets was far from the high standard Plusnet prides itself in delivering where customer services is concerned. In most cases ticket responses seemed rushed, lacking full detail and also seemingly well rehearsed or scripted. There was little in the way of a personal touch, other than that one example I mentioned where, on March 26 , the CSC analyst went to great measures to familiarise herself with the case history, and to offer a much more personal response.
Although I'm not at a stage yet where I can tick the magic “this fixed my problem” box, I think we're nearly there now (touch wood!)

That being said though, it is clear there have been multiple failings with this case here, and given the amount of time I have had to spend on piecing everything together, and also working with @Townman to produce captures of the various errors to help diagnose possible causes, I'm sure you will all agree that this is by no means the service I had come to expect from Plusnet. With everything added together, this has all led to a frustrating customer experience, and I was deeply saddened that Plusnet seemingly allowed this to build up over time without actually trying to remedy the situation. The best possible outcome for this would be that this is used as a learning experience to help improve the response to customers in the future. It's a real shame to note on this forum that this wasn't an isolated case, and I am saddened to see that Plusnet didn't listen to customers who raised their concerns when issues first started back in September 2018. Trends should have been spotted, and acted upon much sooner rather than allow this to go on for so long. But I think that's enough of should have, and could have, like I say, the most important thing now is that samples of customer experiences shared via tickets, phone calls, social media and even this very forum are collated and used in a way that will help positively shape a better outcome and much more positive response in the future.

I don't like to end on a negative though, so I will add that during today's telephone call to Plusnet, I had the pleasure of being connected to a relatively new team member. The time he spent with me calmly looking over the notes, listening to me and responding was very much appreciated. That member is clearly a real asset to the company I would say, and I hope that is a sign of good things and improvements to come. Full credit and gratitude for that team member. Thanks for everything you did for me today, and thank you for your time.

Moderator's note by Mike (Mav): Duplicate post released from Spam Filter and subsequently removed.

[#14]

Thanks a lot for your feedback @luk 

Firstly no need to apologise, I get the frustration and I'm just glad that you've been able to make the payment now.

For the time being for future payments I really do think setting up a direct debit would make things run more smoothly, otherwise it looks like we'll need to take payments over the phone from you once your bills generate until the issue with the continuous card processing has been resolved. We'd be happy to call you back though to save you waiting in a queue.

I've added a reply to your long support/complaint ticket 186593312 with more information which I hope helps.

As the ticket has been returned back to yourself it will close after 28 days of inactivity if you don't add a reply in the meantime however if you need further help after that timeframe feel free to let us know over here. If you do reply to the ticket within the next 28 days then it'll go back into your case handler's workflow (initials DC) to follow up.

I've also noted the points you've made and we'll make sure your feedback is passed on where we can. 

Thanks again.

[#15]

@luk

I am pleased to hear that you have made progress.

To be clear my interest here was limited to why you could not connect to the PlusNET services (connection timeout). I have a particular theory related to TG582n routers. I do though understand that you have other things to attend to at the moment.