Engineer call out charge - unfair !

[#1]

Can someone from broadband support take a look at ticket number 173746232 please? Our landline is connected to the cabinet by approx. 250 metres of aluminium wire dating from the early 1980s. We’ve had several problems with the line prior to signing up with Plusnet/ several visits by BT Openreach/several repairs. In March 2018 we arranged an engineers callout, he ran tests and removed an extension cable between the master socket and the router: Yes, there was a small increase in speed but we are still experiencing very low speeds of 2-3 mbps intermittently, and frequent dropouts. The slow broadband speeds certainly weren’t caused by the extension cable, and haven’t been      fixed by removing it. Seems unfair to be charged £65 for this! The ticket has now been closed by Plusnet so I can’t respond via that route.

visit, they have informed us that the slower broadband speeds that you were experiencing were being caused by your extension equipment. When the engineer carried out tests directly from the master socket, bypassing your equipment, they saw an increase in speed compared to when your extension equipment is connected to the line. 

[#2]

It does sound a bit unreasonable on the face of it but what were the actual figures? Obviously any length of cable of any quality is going to have some effect on speeds so surely there must have been a significant effect for the engineer to flag it up.

[#3]

Sadly it's made clear beforehand if extension cables are to blame for the fault(s) then a fee is issued, the Engineer at the time deemed your issue to be the result of the extension cable, you say the increase was small and you still have problems but if it was enough to get you back into the estimate range then to the engineer and openreach the extension is at fault regardless of how much the increase was, it's one you're going to have to argue over with Plusnet.

[#4]

Some simple basic facts may help your case - what are the estimates on your line as shown on the DSL Checker?

What were the sync speeds from your router on the extension lead?

What were your sync speeds from your router from the hidden socket on the master socket?

How do both compare to the hand back speeds on the DSL Checker?

If the engineers actions brought your speeds above the handback speed, alas you won't get very far, and the £65 applies.

[#5]

Moderator's note:

Topic moved from Fibre-Broadband to Accounts/Billing for better visibility.

[#6]

Hi,

OK, thanks for all your comments and suggestions so far. Here's the data from the DSL checker, minus my telephone number. It looks like the downstream line rate is well above the handback threshhold, but i don't  have the data prior to the repair. Or evidence from the engineer that removing the extension cable increased the speed over a particular threshold. I'm still experiencing dropouts/intermittent very low speeds, and Plusnet have opened and closed this issue in my account so i'm unable to appeal via this route.......

Featured Products	Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)		Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)		Downstream Handback Threshold(Mbps)	WBC FTTC Availability Date	WBC SOGEA Availability Date	Left in Jumper
	High	Low	High	Low
VDSL Range A (Clean)	27.1	16.5	4.6	2.6	14.5	Available	--	--
VDSL Range B (Impacted)	21.1	10.3	4.3	1.2	7.9	Available	--	--
Featured Products	Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)		Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)		Downstream Range(Mbps)	WBC FTTP Availability Date
FTTP on Demand	330		30		--	Available	--	--
ADSL Products	Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)		Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)		Downstream Range(Mbps)	Availability Date		Left in Jumper
WBC ADSL 2+	Up to 3		--		2 to 6	Available	--	--
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M	Up to 3		Up to 0.5		2 to 6	Available	--	--
ADSL Max	Up to 3		--		2 to 4	Available	--	--
WBC Fixed Rate	1		--		--	Available	--	--
Fixed Rate	1		--		--	Available	--	--
Other Offerings						Availability Date
VDSL Multicast	--		--		--	Available	--	--
ADSL Multicast	--		--		--	Available	--	--
Premise environment	Status
Bridge Tap	U
VRI	N
NTEFaceplate	N
Last Test Date	25-04-2018

[#7]

Hi there. I'm sorry to hear you've been charged for an engineer visit.

I've reviewed your account and I can see your line rate/sync speeds increased from 13mbps to 20mbps following the engineer visit, bringing things in line within expectations for your fibre service/length of your line.

As we made you aware of the potential charge before the appointment, I'm sorry to say but on this occasion the charge is applicable I'm afraid.

I've also tested your line just now and I can see your router is still in sync at 20mbps with no drops for the past 7 days:

Are your devices connecting over WiFi or straight to the router using an ethernet cable?

If you're using WiFi, would you be able to try a wired connection? This will help narrow down where the problem lies. If your speed is OK that way, then it's likely the issue lies with the wireless signal and further help can be found here: https://community.plus.net/t5/Plusnet-Blogs/How-to-boost-your-wi-fi/ba-p/1450193

If you're still having problems using a wired connection, please can you run a speed test at www.speedtest.btwholesale.com completing the further diagnostics at the end?

Thanks,

Anoush

[#8]

Unfortunately experience doesn't come cheap!

Perhaps the lesson learnt is to come to this forum with the problem early on. I would be amazed if you weren't advised here to look at the dsl checker to see what speed you should be getting and to remove the extension cable before testing the speed and calling in Openreach.

Do come back if you find that you have an ongoing wireless problem.

[#9]

ok Anoush, thanks for your reply. I'm surprised that the increase in speed was so large. Is there an engineer's report to support this? Subjectively the speed is only a bit faster.

We have a desktop pc connected via a wired connection so i'll run speedchecks using this machine.

Before calling out the engineer i ran speedchecks using both wired and wireless devices and the results were almost identical, so i don't think there are problems with the wireless signal, but will try this as well.

I note that the graph you attached is from a "visual radius" tool, and a quick search of the forum tells me that it's for staff use only. What's it actually telling us - there's no key. Do dropouts appear as red dots or bars? Any chance you could run a test over a longer period to show before/after the engineers visit?

[#10]

Is there an engineer's report to support this?

I've sent you an e-mail with the full engineer notes we have.

We tested your line before and after the visit, you can view these results over here.

We have a desktop pc connected via a wired connection so i'll run speedchecks using this machine.

Let us know what result you see.

I note that the graph you attached is from a "visual radius" tool, and a quick search of the forum tells me that it's for staff use only. What's it actually telling us - there's no key. Do dropouts appear as red dots or bars? Any chance you could run a test over a longer period to show before/after the engineers visit?

The visual radius tool is a graphical representation of the connection logs from our radius server.

A red bar indicates the connection has dropped, a green one indicates it's reconnected.

Here's a copy of your connection logs as far as we can see back.