Direct Debits at Plusnet

[#1]

Asked elsewhere, and I think your customers should know if under your Direct Debit system, which is for only 3 days notice, when the DD site says that it is normally 10 days notice, at what point can the customer complain and the DD be changed if Pnet have made a mistake in the amount of their notification 3 days before taking the money from our bank accounts.

[#2]

Not sure what the answer to your question is but you need to be careful here.

Assume PN bill you for £ 10 more than what you think you should be paying and you either cancel or are able to change the figure to the correct amout it is possible that PN simply see the amount they charge as correct and either cancel or freeze your account in addition to claiming you owe them the outstanding amount.

Assuming that the PN figure is incorrect that would be of no help to you as it could take weeks to sort out the correct figure with all the hassle that would cause you.

Whilst it goes against the grain for me to suggest this I would pay the figure shown and then argue the point to get a refund.

Keep in mind the current problems PN have in the billing department

[#3]

Hi @Anon

If customers billing amount is incorrect and we are unable to amend the pricing via credit before it is taken, we are more than happy to offer refunds or credits against the account as a resolution once the payment has cleared. 

Kind Regards

[#4]

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That is not what I asked. I aksed what was the cut off date for a customer to complian and get the DD altered. YOU not us insist on the 3 days, which is less than normal. Anbd you refund once it is cleared. I actally take that to mean that there is no chance at customers getting DD's altered and that you inform the customer and at the same time send out to the bank. Can you confirm that is correct, Please? I think we as your long suffering paying customers have the right to know what you are doing with our money.

[#5]

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@gleneagles wrote:

Not sure what the answer to your question is but you need to be careful here.

Assume PN bill you for £ 10 more than what you think you should be paying and you either cancel or are able to change the figure to the correct amout it is possible that PN simply see the amount they charge as correct and either cancel or freeze your account in addition to claiming you owe them the outstanding amount.

Assuming that the PN figure is incorrect that would be of no help to you as it could take weeks to sort out the correct figure with all the hassle that would cause you.

Whilst it goes against the grain for me to suggest this I would pay the figure shown and then argue the point to get a refund.

Keep in mind the current problems PN have in the billing department

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Assume, now that some of us will be owing several moinths of money that they overbill by £100. Do you still want to argue the same?

Also assume that with the present billing problems that one has left Pnet and this is taking money for the last period of time with them, I would not give you a cat in hells chance of getting any money back, and especially not in a reasonable amount of time, especially giving the present mess they have got themselves into and managed to drag their paying customers into it with them.

[#6]

Hi @Anon

You have the right to complain if you are dissatisfied at any time.

As I mentioned previously if you receive a notification and identify that the bill is incorrect we encourage our customers to contact us as soon as possible to discuss this. We would be more than happy to help.

As afore mentioned, if we are unable to make any changes prior to the bill being taken we will of course refund this once the payment has cleared.

Please find the Direct Debit guarantee:

This guarantee is offered by all banks and building societies that take part in the Direct Debit scheme. 

The efficiency and security of the scheme is monitored and protected by your own bank or building society.

If the amounts to be paid or the payment dates change, Plusnet PLC will notify you 3 working days in advance of your account being debited, or as otherwise agreed.

If an error is made by Plusnet PLC or your bank or building society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund, from the branch, of the amount paid. You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by writing to your bank or building society.

Kind Regards

[OllieC]

# OllieC

Firstly you have still not told me how long after the email is sent out can the customer complain that the DD is incorrect and have it changed.

Secondly if there is no time after the issues of the email for the customer to do that, why is it acceptable for the customer to have to wait until you refund the difference?

Thirdly the DD Guarantee which you quote and in context really does say "If an error is made by Plusnet PLC or your bank or building society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund, from the branch, of the amount paid. You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by writing to your bank or building society."

So that the customer, if Pnet makes a mistake can get an immediate refund. There is no mention here that the "mistake" must be that Pnet said is was x amount but debited y amount AND THAT IS THE ONLY WAY TO OPERATE A REFUND.

BUT

Fourthly

Why was I told to STOP telling customers to ask for a refund if the amount notified was wrong BUT that Pnet took that same wrong amount because that is not what the DD Gurantee is for.

FURTHER I was told that encouraging customers to use that part of the DD for incorrect notified amounts, but that incorrect notified amount was taken was WRONG and could result in "them being restricted for non-payment" https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Account-Billing/Incorrect-bill/m-p/1624457#M39422

IF there is no space of time for the customer to contact Pnet after notification so that the DD can be changed, that means that with Pnet, we have to accept any amount their rotten billing programme spews out however wrong it might be, with no chance to change it and if we ask the bank to refund us, WE WILL BE IN THE WRONG AND SERVICE RESTRICTED because the DD Guarantee is not to protect customers from being billed for incorrect amounts, but only for taking a different amount from that notified.

Please confirm that this staement is the correct position that Pnet puts its customers in.

[#8]

Thank you for your reply @Anon

I will address the points you raised in your last post in order to ensure that we maintain clarity.

In answer to your first point, I can confirm that there is no set timescale for a customer to complain to us about a bill. Of course if there is a discrepancy about a bill then you will only be able to do so after having visibility of this, which is typically 3 days prior. In respect of prior bills, I can confirm that you can raise a complaint about these at any point. We would always offer support with complaints at any point and always work with you to reach an amicable resolution.

Secondly, I can confirm that we do not find it always acceptable to make customers wait for the bill to be overcharged and then issue a refund, we do appreciate how inconvenient this can be for our customers. This is why we implemented the new function where we pause billing to allow us to amend the bills, remove the incorrect charge and then issue the invoice for the correct amount after the suspensions have been lifted.

Thirdly, the direct debit guarantee is there for your protection as a consumer. Regardless of who overcharges you or if the amount is incorrect by a pound or a penny, you do have the right to contact your bank/building society to claim a refund for the overcharged amount and if you wish to do so, you can remove your direct debit mandate until such time as the error is corrected.

Fourthly I can clarify that whilst we would always ensure that any errors are corrected and refunding customers any overcharges would happen as part of our usual practice we would always discuss this directly with the affected party.  We would ask that you do not spread your comments about the same issue over multiple posts and/or advise customers on their individual accounts as this can cause confusion, delayed responses and also mean that the information shared is not relevant and or specific to their issues.

If a customer does cancel the direct debit mandate, when the bill is generated this can cause the restrictions of service to come into effect as we would always request you have some form of payment method set up on the account.

In respect of your final statement, I can confirm that you are well within your rights to claim for a refund for any overcharges through the direct debit guarantee. The only time restrictions will be applied on the account is if,

a; The direct debit mandate is removed altogether

or

b; The indemnity claim made through the bank to claim a refund is not just for the overcharged amount, but also for charges for services rendered

I do fully take on board your comments and I would like to assure you that whilst we always aim to minimise any errors with billing, sometimes these do happen, and in these instances we always aim to work closely with our customers to find the best way to correct the error and resolution.

Kind Regards,

[#9]

Thank you for your reply.

It does still leave outstanding the question that I asked. Which was

How long after you generate an email  advising of an amount to be taken by DD (which you usually take 3 days after that notification) does a customer have, not  to complain (the issue you have addressed) but to complain SO THAT THE DIRECT DEBIT CAN BE CHANGED?

OR is it the case that once you have generated the email notification to the customer the DD CANNOT be changed.

Secondly

If we can complain and get a rebate for any reason why were the statements quoted above by me made by staff ie that it was ONLY for when Pnet said x would be taken and then Pnet took y. Please explain your staffs comments.

Thirdly

I am proud that there are many thanks on my profile and commenting across some find helpful. Indeed for many months Pnet WERE ABSOLUTELY SILENT AND WOULD NOT ADMIT A BILLING ISSUE. And I thought the boards were there for us to help each other, I am glad the days are gone (was it pre 2007?, certainly when these new boards came about) when Pnet were the board moderators and one risked being kicked off the boards for little or no reason. If you want me to back up that statement I will post a staff email which highlights this. If the mods believe that my posting is not correct then they nwill deal with it, is it now staff's business again?  Had I not set up this thread the forum community would have believed what your member of staff incorrectly said. Question is, which one is correct?

Fourthly

If you check bills before they go out, why are people still saying they have been billed wrongly?

Fifthly

I appreciate that my posting might not be to Pnet's taste. Hard luck.

Edited to add....

If like most companies who operate DD's they do so as BACS recommend and gave 10 days notice (they say "normally 10 days") then you would have time to adjust the DD after notification and before it was sent out. BACS know that is how they intended it to work.

[#10]

I am sorry if you feel I had not addressed all of your points. @Anon

In terms of our ability to change the requested amount if this happens to be incorrect. This is something that we have limited ability to do, but would involve us suspending the billing on the respective account until the requested amount is corrected. When you receive notification of your invoice, this is typically when the bill is generated and at this stage the payment is already in processing with your bank. Therefore, without suspension the alternative option is to allow the payment to go through and then refund the respective customers for the overcharged amount.

In response to the comments made on this issue by my colleagues. It is well within your right to request a rebate and this is not limited to where you are charged  ‘x’ but then you are billed ‘y’

The forum is indeed here to highlight issues and to discuss ongoing topics so we can all help each other, so I am pleased to see that the function it is designed for is working well. My response was not in any way to discourage you from posting and assisting others. However, was made to highlight the fact that there are issues on specific accounts where certain advice can be taken which is in contrary to what has been advised by staff and that can cause further complications with account affected by issues. However, I reiterate this is not being said to discourage you from posting.

On your fourth point, I can confirm that bills are checked before they go out. However, as I’m sure you can appreciate it is not possible to check every single bill which goes out and the charges which are attributed to each of these.

You posting is well within your rights. However, all I would ask is that you try to keep all of your posts on the same thread where possible, so that we can answer all of your queries, like we are doing right now. I understand that you are posting for the benefit of all and to aid others who may have a similar query, or want an answer to a question that you have already posed, and we applaud that.

However as we have answered your questions, if you could be kind enough to possibly advise what resolution you are seeking with these questions so that we can put measures in place to correct any failures and alleviate any concerns that you, or any others may have. This would be greatly appreciated.

Finally in respect of the payment notification timescales, I do fully take your comments on board and I have passed this up the chain to see if this is something which can be implemented.

Once again I would like to thank you again for raising this to us as we do truly value feedback both positive and constructive.

Kind Regards,

[#11]

Thank you once again for your reply.

I take from it that once you have sent out notification the DD cannot be recalled, and from your earlier post that if we, thereforfe excercise the only right we have left and request a rebate from our bank that service will be restricted. So either we allow Pnet to take anything their faulty programme throws out or restrictions. That does not seem to be iunkeeping with any sort of guarantee that makes the DD system a protected system when operated bu Pne t and I will ask BACS if they agree withme and agree that Pnet are no longer suitable agents to be able to operate DD's.

And if you believe that Pnet refund quickly then I think this posting is interesting

https://community.plus.net/t5/My-Account-Billing/For-anyone-waiting-for-a-Direct-Debit-refund/m-p/15...

I also wonder if you intend us to take you seriously when you talk about advice given by myself or others that may conflict with staff''s advice, when you have just admitted that the advice given by a member of staff regarding DD's was infact incorrect, that was a one off was it? Yes I/we do brief against staff and that is because sometimes an alternative view might help the customer when staff are clearly trying hard to tow the Pnet scripted line and sometimes because staff are simply wrong. Perhaps it might help if you ensure that staff do not keep briefing things that are not correct.

The best of luck raising it with anyone in Pnet, if you read this thread that I started in 2008 ELEVEN YEARS AGO and got nowhere, I think unless BACS will act none of us have any chance.

https://community.plus.net/t5/ADSL-Broadband/Direct-Debit-Guarantee/td-p/504313/page/3?collapse_disc...

And I actually did raise a special thread about DD's when a member of staff CHALLENGED what I was saying to customers and told me I WAS WRONG TO DO SO and as you have said the staff member was wrong. So why are you whinging about keeping to the same thread, I did this before you had even become involved. But where staff do NOT advise customers of their rights to cancel DD's and only offer them a delayed, and from the threads on here rcently, a very delayed refund, I will keep offering them the information that they can request a rebate from their bank immediately. Now if your system of not giving the 'normal' 10 days notice and that after notification the DD cannot be recalled and then you prenalise the customer for taking back what is rightfully theirs faster than you usually offer and when you have a system that puts people in that position I think that is against everything that DD's are about and intend to ask BACS their advice. But I can tell you if you did it to me I would have a solictors letter on Pnet's doormat before they could think of debt collecting agencies and I would be looking for serious compensation for causing the problem yourselves.

To put together the questions or issues I have

1. You do not give us chance to get DD's changed, which is unfair to your customer (perhaps alongside the DD Guarantee you quoted you could also add that the short notice means that after notification from your defective programme the amount cannot be altered). That might just make customers think before signing up.

2. That you advise customers of their rights when you have taken an incorrect amount ie they do not have to wait for you to process (a quote from a recent post) they can ask their bank for a refund.