Denied One Touch Switch of Landline Number Plusnet deny existence of my Landline to other suppliers

[#1]

So, been a plusnet customer for 23 years and moving away because they're forcing me to.

Moved my landline from BT to plusnet about 2-3 years ago.   (Landline actually matters to me - since various parts of the NHS fail hard for non-landline calls)

Been told that my contract ends in 1 month, at which point my price will be hiked 100%

I know that landlines are disappearing at some point soon - but have been offered a "deal" which is a massive price hike next year and year after. Not only that, that plusnet won't be providing a digital voice offering (despite using the same router as BT which has a digital voice port)

So I go looking for alternatives. 

Since I have a VoIP account with Andrews and Arnold, I go to see if I can port my landline number to them. 

The one touch switching there gives an error: "The requested service was not found against the matched customer / account / subscription" -- which specifically means "Plus net found the account, but are telling Andrews and Arnold that my landline doesn't exist as a service" (even though it very much does)

I then think, OK, let's try someone else. So I try Sky Broadband. Go through all of their forms, only to be told *again* that Plusnet are denying the existence of my landline / landline phone number.  Specifically Sky says "There is no active landline service matching your Plusnet account details, but we found a broadband service." and then it goes on to say "We found a broadband service provided by Plusnet with the account number xxxxxxxx."

That means I'm entering the right details.

It means that both A&A and Sky Broadband are correctly querying plusnet for the details of my landline, but Plusnet's systems are lying and saying that I don't have a landline with them. (I do, and have the phone bills to prove it)

That means PlusNet have me over the proverbial barrel because broadband is vital to our jobs, and landline is essential to my caring responsibilities. 

Plus net haven't responded to emails about this, problem. 

The only phone number they provide is a *sales* line and I actually need someone to update their systems to tell other providers "Yes, I have a phone number".

Technically, the error is that plusnet's end of the OTS (one touch switch) system is responding to other providers that I don't have any NBICS (Number Based Information Communications Services) - which is plain wrong - and so they're preventing a switch. (illegally)

My products: (copy and pasted from the portal) 

* Unlimited Fibre Extra inc. Line rental

* Line Only

If I click on "Phone", that says:

* Your phone service

* Product: Line Only

* Phone number(s):  (correct number)

* Call Plan Price (per month):  £0.00

This is clearly plusnet being incompetent on their end, but if they only have a sales line, don't answer emails, and just point people here.  Well ... hence this post here in the vain hope that  maybe someone from plusnet support will respond? 

[#2]

but if they only have a sales line, don't answer emails, and just point people here.  

The support number is 0330 1239 123 its shown on the contact us section of this page https://www.plus.net/help/phone/

I suspect there is an error in a database somewhere linking your phone number to an address, If you've not changed supplier for a long time , its prorbably been there since the last change!. It could be Plusnets database or it could be Openreachs. That is causing the OTS system to fail to retrieve the correct data and thus prevent a switch.

It probably needs an ORDI (OpenReach Data Integrity) request submitted to correct the data. The support line OUGHT to be able to arrange this but otherwise, I'm sure one of the Plusnet help team will pick this up.

BTW you can not just switch the phone number to A & A, it will cease your broadband as well.

[#3]

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The support number is 0330 1239 123 its shown on the contact us section of this page

https://www.plus.net/help/phone/

That's very helpful, thank you. (I hope plusnet reimburse you superusers for your effort!) I'd missed that. I was referring to the pages that relate to leaving plusnet - which seem to think the only solution is sales. Thanks!

I suspect there is an error in a database somewhere linking your phone number to an address, If you've not changed supplier for a long time , its prorbably been there since the last change!. It could be Plusnets database or it could be Openreachs. That is causing the OTS system to fail to retrieve the correct data and thus prevent a switch.

Plusnet is wholly owned by BT. Openreach is wholly owned by BT. The phone number was moved from BT to plusnet. No matter which way you look at it, they don't really have any excuse - they're at fault, and frankly it's pathetic. (I'm a software engineer, primarily of network systems, so I say that very emphatically - it's pathetic of them)

It probably needs an ORDI (OpenReach Data Integrity) request submitted to correct the data. The support line OUGHT to be able to arrange this but otherwise, I'm sure one of the Plusnet help team will pick this up.

I'll give one of actual staff there a chance to look at this here.

Though I must admit have very low opinion of plusnet now after seeing how incompetently they manage things. Every time there's a change they break something. They knackered my payments a few years ago because they unilaterally decided that the council authority was part of my postal address (which was irrelevant to the change at the time). I mean that was ludicrous, and yet the support member of staff I spoke to back then thought I was in the wrong, even though everyone said he was wrong including the royal mail, bank and council (who do after all have to know addresses for people). Anyhow, I digress. I'll give someone from plusnet staff a chance to reply.

BTW you can not just switch the phone number to A & A, it will cease your broadband as well.

Yes, A&A web systems flagged this up on their porting page when I decided to click on the "not OTS" button, and it noted that this would cause a cessation of broadband at that instant. But because it was broken that's why I decided to check sky broadband - which noted that they could do both the phone & broadband as a single step. At that point Sky's systems detailed precisely the problems - that Plusnet was reporting that I have broadband but not phone.

Oh minor detail though regarding this:

The support number is 0330 1239 123 its shown on the contact us section of this page

That's not gonna work from the service they provide. Also, Plusnet can't phone our landline at the moment though - it says it's constantly engaged. (it isn't though)

They've actually additionally broken our phone line at the moment - can't make this up. (though I don't know if that's since last night) It's showing a fault now if I look here -- https://www.plus.net/my-account/tools/phone-troubleshooter/ -- something that I've had confirmed by Openreach - as a problem outside our property, so again their collective fault - according to them.

Just as well NHS clinics always use mobiles to contact people. Oh, no, wait, they don't - they prefer the landline, and rarely try mobiles if the landline fails - at least round here. (being a registered carer for 2 people this is a real issue, not that plusnet would care because if they did, I wouldn't have to jump through hoops just to try to maintain a service they can easily continue to provide if they wanted)

Broadband is working though, for the moment. Who knows if it'll keep working.

Nice to see they want to increase my monthly charges to nearly £62 for this gold plated <self-censored> service. (Wonder why I'm trying to leave.)

Anyway, thanks for the tip. I'll see if anyone from plusnet staff replies. I mean that's what we pay for, right? 

[#4]

@thwackety 

"broadband is vital to our jobs"

Not relevant to your current problem, but do you have a residential broadband and telephone service, or a business one?

A business service gives a better SLA, (Service Level Agreement), in therms of how long it should take to get any fault fixed.

Also, as you rely so heavily on your broadband, do you have a backup option in case of a fault,even a mobile phone set up as a WiFi hotspot?

.

[#5]

They knackered my payments a few years ago because they unilaterally decided that the council authority was part of my postal address (which was irrelevant to the change at the time). I mean that was ludicrous, and yet the support member of staff I spoke to back then thought I was in the wrong, even though everyone said he was wrong including the royal mail, bank and council (who do after all have to know addresses for people). Anyhow, I digress. I'll give someone from plusnet staff a chance to reply.

That sounds like it could be when the database inconsistency started. Plusnet will (like any other supplier using Openreach) use the Openreach database. Every property has a UPRN , it would be interesting to lookup the UPRN for your address here https://www.findmyaddress.co.uk/ and then use the BT wholesale address checker https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressHome , put in your postcode and see if the details fro your entry in the list match the UPRN and address .

They've actually additionally broken our phone line at the moment - can't make this up. (though I don't know if that's since last night) It's showing a fault now if I look here -- https://www.plus.net/my-account/tools/phone-troubleshooter/ -- something that I've had confirmed by Openreach - as a problem outside our property, so again their collective fault - according to them

That doesnt sound good, its a bit too coincidental to get a fault just as you've started to look at a transfer!. It MIGHT indicate that one of your attempts to transfer actually DID start the process !!

I'll try and escalate this thread to get a staff member to pick it up...

[#6]

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@Anonymous wrote:

Not relevant to your current problem, but do you have a residential broadband and telephone service, or a business one?

A business service gives a better SLA, (Service Level Agreement), in therms of how long it should take to get any fault fixed.

It would, but then you don't worry about things if they're generally working. (I've normally caught issues caused by plusnet before they've become an issue for us practically speaking)

Without going into too much personal details, for one of us the lack of home connection is a major inconvenience (due to health risks), for the other, they needs to have a connection. (Previous employer paid for the other half to have a separate broadband but when they moved on we didn't revisit a replacement second line. However, new employer doesn't - I guess that could be dealt with via tax return though thinking about it) Given that the actual connection has been pretty solid for 23 years, it's not something I'd worried about too much. It's literally only a problem because plusnet are choosing to make it one for customers.

Also that said, having seen multiple horror stories of people on here (and elsewhere) saying that switching over to plusnet (and from) has left them without broadband for weeks in the past, it's a concern. The odd few days here and there are manageable. Weeks? Far less so. Lack of landline phone though? Again, back to NHS cancelling necessary appointments.

Also, as you rely so heavily on your broadband, do you have a backup option in case of a fault,even a mobile phone set up as a WiFi hotspot?.

Yes, multiple phones each with some limited data allowance. And the hotspot thing is something I know works.

Anyway, thanks for asking and suggesting that.

Just as a general comment though -- it's not an unusual situation though to rely on broadband - even just for personal stuff - given that cutting the cord and doing all TV/Radio/etc over IP is relatively common now.

Anyway, thanks for the reply - if I'd not known about those options that would've been very welcome. 🙂

[#7]

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@MisterW wrote:

That sounds like it could be when the database inconsistency started.

 That was the primary reason for mentioning it TBH. Could be. Might not be though.

Plusnet will (like any other supplier using Openreach) use the Openreach database. Every property has a UPRN , it would be interesting to lookup the UPRN for your address here https://www.findmyaddress.co.uk/ and then use the BT wholesale address checker https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/#/ADSL/AddressHome , put in your postcode and see if the details fro your entry in the list match the UPRN and address .

Did the usual thing of house number and postcode, and it gives the right address.  That system agrees with Royal Mail, the council, etc 🙂 (ie You've found another system that disproves the mistake that was made by that person who acted like I was in the wrong back in the day..) 

They've actually additionally broken our phone line at the moment - can't make this up. (though I don't know if that's since last night) It's showing a fault now if I look here -- https://www.plus.net/my-account/tools/phone-troubleshooter/ -- something that I've had confirmed by Openreach - as a problem outside our property, so again their collective fault - according to them

That doesnt sound good, its a bit too coincidental to get a fault just as you've started to look at a transfer!. It MIGHT indicate that one of your attempts to transfer actually DID start the process !!

I don't think so - apparently it's possibly been like this since at least friday. Dialling our number says there's another call in progress - even though there isn't (and no dial tone) - and apparently that might've been the case on friday. I say might because I didn't know until today, and it was apparently when someone tried calling and got an engaged message, even though it wasn't... Also, you don't tend to think of testing your own landline until your ISP declares you don't have one...

(We don't get *many* NHS calls - waiting lists etc - but when they do it's important they're not missed, because they don't call back - and they tend to come in bursts. Similarly the carer support people don't try mobile number or try again, and just remove you from the lists if you're not careful)

I think the co-incidence is just me checking it after seeing multiple systems say that I don't have a landline.

I'll try and escalate this thread to get a staff member to pick it up...

I'll give a fair period to wait, if they don't pick it up, I'll give them a call.

And thanks - you're a very kind person 🙂

[#8]

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That doesnt sound good, its a bit too coincidental to get a fault just as you've started to look at a transfer!. It MIGHT indicate that one of your attempts to transfer actually DID start the process !!

I'll try and escalate this thread to get a staff member to pick it up...

---

After they tried to sell me an upgrade (I guess anything working completely working would be an upgrade), and ignoring the issue, I reiterated why I'd phoned and was put through to someone who actually sounded technical, and was very helpful. 
The long and short of it is the system not only checks the data you mentioned but also checks that the line is functional. If it isn't it won't allow it to go through. Since it wasn't it couldn't.

Apparently the reason the line is bust is because of the special way that Openreach are working at the moment. The upshot is a)  Openreach broke the line b) Allegedly this means that this is why the OTS failed. c) Because I checked the line and reported it last night, Openreach have 48 hours to fix the problem meaning d) when it's working, it also unblock the OTS - or at least mean the ORDI update can happen - and the that'll unblock the OTS. Whether this is actually the case depends on alot of different things, but it is at least plausible.

Had to quote mine and your posts to both the sales person who I was put through to first - even though the reason I was calling was because of a fault in the OTS and the faulty landline. The guy flat out said it has to be A&A or Sky's fault - ignoring the fact that for it to happen to one is unfortunate, two smacks of carelessness. Sales guy also didn't seem to understand why I wouldn't want to go somewhere else, even though the one thing they're supposed to get right - the landline & broadband - doesn't work. The sales guy didn't understand a word of it...) Second guy though was great and said "that all makes perfect sense" - made obvious checks etc and mentioned the possible solution - "what for openreach to fix the line first ~ 8th May and then see if that's fixed it."

Anyway, thanks again MisterW - very helpful. 

[#9]

The long and short of it is the system not only checks the data you mentioned but also checks that the line is functional. If it isn't it won't allow it to go through. Since it wasn't it couldn't.

Well I dont want to sound like mr doubtful, but that's a new one on me! AFAIK the OTS system just attempts to tie the service to the address. Im not aware that it has any data to indicate whether the service has a current fault or not.

Apparently the reason the line is bust is because of the special way that Openreach are working at the moment.

Again , a new one on me!

The upshot is a)  Openreach broke the line b) Allegedly this means that this is why the OTS failed. c) Because I checked the line and reported it last night, Openreach have 48 hours to fix the problem meaning d) when it's working, it also unblock the OTS - or at least mean the ORDI update can happen - and the that'll unblock the OTS. Whether this is actually the case depends on alot of different things, but it is at least plausible.

It will be interesting to see what happens when the fault is fixed...

[#10]

• * Well I dont want to sound like mr doubtful, but that's a new one on me!

Yeah, well. I said it sounded plausible. Benefit of the doubt and all that... Whether it's true or not I don't know. If it'd come from the sales guy I would've claimed BS, because he essentially acted as if plusnet could do no wrong - and the problems the other ISPs had with them 

[#11]

Well, as a further update to anyone reading this:

* This still hasn't been resolved.

* Fixing the landline didn't fix the problem

* Speaking to multiple people at plusnet hasn't resolved the issue

* Posting on here repeatedly hasn't fixed the issue.

* First time I phoned to get it resolved I was put through to sales person instead which was extremely annoying

* Said sales guy wrongly said the problem was definitely with A&A and Sky Broadband because it couldn't possibly be plusnet's fault

* He put me through to the (hopefully) technical guy - who I gave the benefit of when he said that waiting for the landline to be fixed by openreach might well fix the problem. It didn't. (note, plusnet doing *nothing* here and it didn't work) 

* At this point someone at plusnet decided to change my marketting preferences from "do not contact" to "spam with everything", which was the cherry on the cake. (which breaches ICO guidelines)

* To their credit someone who monitors these forums DID contact me and I genuinely believe they want to help - after my landline had come back, and listened to the problem and committed to go away and get it resolved either today or monday next week.

* I then another  person phone from plusnet's to try to effectively "upsell" me not having a landline (Their "retention" team who despite being told firmly and politely why I was leaving  - need to have continuity of landline number 0 still tried upselling me to not having a landline.

So far as I understand it - though I could be wrong.

* They also sent me an email before all this that breached OFCOM regulations because it the cheapest option I could have to stay was not available on the website page they linked to.

* They've breached ICO guidelines/data protection law (by changing marketting preferences without permission)

* They're in breach of OFCOM guidelines with regard to switching

Anyhoo. Going back to the  annoying sales guy who claimed "It can't plusnet's our fault" (paraphrase because he blamed A&A & Sky), I'd checked plusnet's one touch switch system, by testing with multiple broadband providers with sad results:

* A&A - can confirm I'm a customer of plusnet, can't confirm landline number/service

* Sky Broadband - can confirm I'm a customer of plusnet with broadband, can't confirm active landline 

* Virgin Media - does indeed make the check (if you hunt for where), but errors if you ask it to continue landline number 

* Zen Internet - does indeed make the check, but errors if you ask it to continue the landline number

* Vofafone - does indeed make the check, but errors if you ask it to continue the landline number

When I mentioned this to the nice support lady who monitors these forums, she agreed that it's clearly a plusnet issue, and may well date back to the time when they took over the line from BT (which wouldn't surprise me given the stupidity that arose then). As I said at the time I think that's pretty awful of plusnet because frankly BT, Openreach and Plusnet are all part of the same BT group.

As for now, this whole thing is caused by a business policy decision by plusnet not to enable a specific service on the hardware they send out.  I also note now that they've taken over EE as well, that 2 of the 3 parts of the consumer facing part of their business offer this, so this is literally just spitting in the face of long standing customers IMO.

Anyway, as it stands, nothing's been fixed. I've spoken to 4 people at plusnet - on the landline provided by plusnet no less - the landline their systems deny exist when other companies query them.

I mean, it's one thing for plusnet to agree that it's their fault, but no-one in the company seems to be able to fix a simple database issue.

Who knows though, what next week will bring. Will I be gaslit further by more random sales people phoning up unwanted?  Or will there actually be a resolution to the issue. I'm not a betting person, but at this rate I'm betting that I'll be starting legal proceedings against them.

So, in summary - definitely plusnet's fault - so they are still denying me one touch switching of my landline by denying existence of my landline to other suppliers. No one has been able to or willing to commit to a deadline to fix. No matter how nice any individual people are I've spoken to nor how reasonable I've been when speaking on the phone, this simply isn't acceptable.

[#12]

As I said earlier, I was dubious that the landline fault was preventing the switch. However what was thought was that the Openreach systems were rejecting the port due to the active fault report on the line. Now this has been cleared we seem to be back to the original problem that the OTS system can't match the address for the landline number. This may be in the Openreach database in which case Plusnet will have to follow Openreach procedures to try and get this corrected which may take time.

[#13]

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@MisterW wrote:

As I said earlier, I was dubious that the landline fault was preventing the switch. However what was thought was that the Openreach systems were rejecting the port due to the active fault report on the line. Now this has been cleared we seem to be back to the original problem that the OTS system can't match the address for the landline number. This may be in the Openreach database in which case Plusnet will have to follow Openreach procedures to try and get this corrected which may take time.

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Yes - thank you Mister W for escalating this to the nice lady who monitors the forum. I think this is just stupid, but raising the issue here was the right way to do it IMO. I posted a summary because there's people like me who check these forums but don't post, but are looking for a resolution.

Like yourself I was dubious about the "wait and hope" approach, but I've seen so many stupid bugs on systems and software in the past I thought it worth giving the benefit of the doubt.

The reason I have little patience with them though is because:

* The landline service was originally taken out with BT, probably 25 years ago, who own openreach

* BT spun out openreach some years later (which will have been for business not consumer benefit), but still own openreach

* BT bought plusnet a year later

* 15 years after BT bought plusnet, 16 years after BT spun out openreach, we switched our landline from BT to plusnet - after 22 years with BT

* 11 years ago, EE was bought by BT

So all in all, all these BT owned companies have no excuse not to have gotten that right.

Fast foward to now:

* BT provide a digital voice product with their full fibre offering using a specific router (They won't test the OTS settings without you actually commiting to their service)

* EE offer a digital voice product with their full fibre offering. (They won't test the OTS settings without you actually commiting to their service)

* Plusnet use *the same router* as BT just configured differently with a sticker over the digital voice port - essentially saying "No"

So plusnet *could* just make life easier for customers and just offer a product that people want and will pay for, but no. Heck

So I'm left with being a moaning myrtle and complaining on a public forum about something that a communications company that's all part of the same group left pointing fingers at each other blaming each other an not resolving the problem. Yes, I understand the "fact" that they're all separate businesses, but frankly, the same applies to many other companies that actually get this right, so that's not really an excuse. Especially given that plusnet has been a subsidiary for 18 years, openreach a subsidiary for 17 years, etc.

Meanwhile, I'm now barely 3 weeks away from being charged £62/month by one subsidiary of the group of companies - with the only way of avoiding it to either shift to a different contract without the landline phone number, or to renew for a ridiculously long period of time over which plusnet cannot guarantee to hold up their end of the bargain. (Given the region I'm in is expected to start having copper/landline switch off happening this summer - meaning they want me to renew for 18 months - which means they should welch on their side of the contract within 3-4 months, BUT expect me to continue paying for something they won't provide.)

If someone at plusnet high enough up could actually be bothered to listen to customers or their forum staff (whom I do believe are trying here) then I wouldn't even be needing to have this conversation here, and would just go the path of least resistance. But they don't and so here we are.

If these companies were 2-5 years old it'd a) be more understandable b) they'd be called cowboys c) anyone using them would be told they were idiots for using said cowboys. But plusnet as a company is nearly 30 years old if you go back to its founding. EE is was founded 15 years via a merger with t-mobile-UK which was founded 32 years ago, BT itself is nearly 180 years old and the various different parts of BT Group of companies all appear to be blaming the youngest past which is a mere 19 years old. So hardly companies new to this, and therefore have no excuse.

Meanwhile, I'm left with one arm of BT Group not speaking to another part of BT group, while the latter part of BT group points fingers at another part of BT group for not switching a BT product to themselves properly, because they can't get their act together, and the only "solution" they offered (by the plusnet sales guy) is to buy a product from a different part of BT group because their management can't be bothered to offer the same service that 2 other parts of the BT group are perfectly capable of offering using the same hardware and physical infrastructure.

It's beyond stupid.

The fact that they rely on volunteers such as yourself Mister W is particularly sad, but your comments here and escalating to the forum staff are particularly welcome, and as I say the forum staff member I spoke to do appear to be trying as hard as they can within the limits of the incompetent systems they're working with... 

Sigh...

Maybe next week I'll be able to post something positive.

[#14]

(Given the region I'm in is expected to start having copper/landline switch off happening this summer - meaning they want me to renew for 18 months - which means they should welch on their side of the contract within 3-4 months, BUT expect me to continue paying for something they won't provide.)

The regional switch-off is BT Retail converting THEIR phone service to digital voice, its not a general copper switch off. Openreach will at sometime , currently after Dec 2025, switch off the PSTN.

EE offer a digital voice product with their full fibre offering. (They won't test the OTS settings without you actually commiting to their service)

* Plusnet use *the same router* as BT just configured differently with a sticker over the digital voice port - essentially saying "No"

So plusnet *could* just make life easier for customers and just offer a product that people want and will pay for, but no. Heck

It's not quite as simple as just enabling the service in the router, it requires infrastructure and support to provide a digital voice service. The current landline service and support is provided entirely by Openreach, ISPs have little support needs, they effectively pass all faults straight to Openreach. With DV , suppliers need their own diagnostics and support functionality.

[#15]

@thwackety 

"BT spun out openreach some years later (which will have been for business not consumer benefit), but still own openreach"

Actually, it was OFCOM that forced BT Group to spin out Openreach into a separate company within the BT Group.

This was done to ensure that rival telecoms companies had equality of access to BT's local network - so ultimately it was for the benefit of consumers.

.