Contract cancel due to low speeds, instability and continually hanging of service

[#1]

@KenMavor 

Just some expectations management.

The right to leave is factored on not delivering the minimum guaranteed SYNC speed.  Looking at the router stats the sync speed is in the region of the BTOR speed range report.

That is not the same as the delivered DATA speed being adequate for your needs.  Delivered speed is a function of line length.

There being time dependent variability suggests the possibility of environmental issues - are you rural or near industrial operations?  If the line tests fine on inspection, but behaves poorly at other times, there is the possibility of the presence of REIN, especially it there are also disconnections.  The usual approach there would be dynamic monitoring of the SNRM metrics but the Hub Two does not lend itself to doing that.  Do you have any other hub(s) available?

If you get to the right to leave status, be aware that will mean BTOR has given up trying to improve the service delivery.  If you reach that position, the only way you’ll see better performance would be if there’s an ISP able to deliver service in your location over an Alternative Network provider.

Sometimes in idlic rural settings life and the internet is slow.  I’m in North Cheshire … 3 miles up the road there’s vast areas still only covered by ADSL.

[#2]

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@KenMavor wrote:
I guess I'll just have to wait for fibre.

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It looks as if you have good 4G coverage from all four networks in your area - have you considered 4G broadband? I used Three for several years before an altnet built FTTP in my area, and it was much better than sub-USO ADSL (which is still my only Openreach based option). You can get competent routers (I wouldn't recommend any that the companies provide) and data only deals are available from a number of resellers that don't lock you into expensive long term contracts.

[#3]

With a upload of below 800 Kbps you need to use it very wisely, any sudden upload usage will cause your network to be congested and reduce the performance noticed by dropped speeds and very slow connections.

[#4]

Understood and agree but the same setup over the last 18 months has worked fine.

Every single often we get a glitch in the matrix and everything just stops working. This time it's the worst it's been. I tried connecting at 1.00am last night. Speed was deplorable.

[#5]

Hiya.

Looked into that before I renewed with Plusnet but the speeds being offered were the same. However all our phones pick up a decent 5g signal so I might try a SIM only deal on a rolling month basis and pick up a second hand router and see how that works. Might reduce the load in the main Plusnet service

Any suggestions for a suitable router?

Thanks.

[#6]

@KenMavor 

I asked abou Zen as they use both the OR and CityFibre network. I actually have a choice but it would mean a second ONT being installed.

Only other things I can suggest is to first stick your postcode in each of the following and see what they say,

https://cityfibre.com/

https://checker.ofcom.org.uk/

https://www.openreach.com/

Secondly, somewhere on the OR site you should be able to request a quote to get Full fibre installed. It'll cost way too much but it would at least give you an idea.

Brian

[#7]

I've had a look at Zen and I think the will suffer the same problems. City Fibre say they have no plans to provide fibre to the area.

I'll see what the price is on OR. Might be able to get the other neighbours to get on board.

[#8]

@KenMavor 

I'm at my desk today, so far easier to review this thread than on a phone...

Looking at the detail of the router logs, this line appears to be banded to 17.997mbps, however there also appears to be no error correction on the line.  Something does not feel right here.

Do you only have the Hub Two router available to you?  Are your DATA speed tests over WiFi or an ethernet connected device?

@Windings - Joe, can you please explore this line's history - is the line in fact banded and why?  It seems odd that the line appears to be being managed for stability, albeit there's no error correcting being applied.

Are there any indications of crosstalk or REIN in the service performance measurements?

18mbps is grim for FTTC, but the sub 1mbps (with a high SNRM) US is grim and could be a factor in reducing the usable DS bandwidth.

Is there any evidence of VLAN congestion on the backhaul?  This looks like a very remote area.

[#9]

@Townman 

The change of line sync seems to go back to 22 December 2024

01:46:01, 02 Jan. DSL Link Up: Down Rate=17998kbps, Up Rate=800kbps; SNR Margin Down=6.6dB, Up=14.1dB
01:39:43, 23 Dec. DSL Link Up: Down Rate=15000kbps, Up Rate=800kbps; SNR Margin Down=10.6dB, Up=14.0dB
15:41:06, 22 Dec. DSL Link Up: Down Rate=16496kbps, Up Rate=1164kbps; SNR Margin Down=7.9dB, Up=6.5dB
10:48:46, 22 Dec. DSL Link Up: Down Rate=16496kbps, Up Rate=1164kbps; SNR Margin Down=7.7dB, Up=6.4dB
10:17:11, 22 Dec. DSL Link Up: Down Rate=16496kbps, Up Rate=1164kbps; SNR Margin Down=7.7dB, Up=6.4dB
10:10:15, 22 Dec. DSL Link Up: Down Rate=16496kbps, Up Rate=1164kbps; SNR Margin Down=7.8dB, Up=6.5dB
09:16:41, 22 Dec. DSL Link Up: Down Rate=16496kbps, Up Rate=1164kbps; SNR Margin Down=7.8dB, Up=6.5dB

For DSL Link Down there are very few incidents, but there was an issue 22 Dec and again 05 Mar

22:39:43, 13 Jun. DSL Link Down: duration was 1313 seconds
17:12:17, 12 May. DSL Link Down: duration was 746 seconds
12:31:36, 05 Mar. DSL Link Down: duration was 84 seconds
12:29:44, 05 Mar. DSL Link Down: duration was 2038 seconds
11:55:17, 05 Mar. DSL Link Down: duration was 94623 seconds
14:40:43, 23 Jan. DSL Link Down: duration was 3279 seconds
01:50:21, 06 Jan. DSL Link Down: duration was 345868 seconds
01:45:24, 02 Jan. DSL Link Down: duration was 864349 seconds
01:39:06, 23 Dec. DSL Link Down: duration was 35888 seconds
15:40:30, 22 Dec. DSL Link Down: duration was 17512 seconds
10:48:10, 22 Dec. DSL Link Down: duration was 1867 seconds
10:16:34, 22 Dec. DSL Link Down: duration was 387 seconds
10:09:39, 22 Dec. DSL Link Down: duration was 3186 seconds

These log entries history will limited by the maximum entries for the WAN log 

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Limit of WAN log >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Looking at the event log it was first used on this connection 11:13:38, 29 Aug. System up 

I have found 139 hits for a search for 'System Start' which will be for various reason, GUI restart, TR69 (diagnostic test) and power button pressed.

So I do expect @KenMavor has had enough

[#10]

@Dan_the_Van 

A great piece of sleuthing!!

@Windings 

Joe is there anything in the service's history which offers insight to the marked change of link speed inferred on 23rd Dec 2024?

[#11]

@Townman 

Taking a deeper look into this as i was on limited time yesterday, The sync speeds to the router seem to be above the MGS yes, the line doesn't appear to be banded from what i can see. Line testing indicates a stability issue which makes sense from what we've gathered from the router logs etc... 

Performed a different line test to target and crosstalk/crossed lines and testing hit a fail so I've sent it to OR for further diagnostics, currently awaiting a response from the trouble report I've raised to see what OR find and what they're going to do ultimately. 

In response to your more recent post aswell, there doesn't seem to be anything that would coincide with speed changes back from 23rd December onwards. 

The line profile is set to stable currently so there may be a chance the stability profile was changed around that time? I'm unsure though because normally i would be able to see a record of any modify orders through BTW. Maybe because it was 6 months ago the modify order has been scrubbed from the records related to the BBEU because the faults we've raised previously for Ken aren't shown in the records either. Normally a record is kept for 12 months so its sort of thrown me off not being able to see anything.

@KenMavor 

Depending on OR's decision, i may need to book an engineer appointment with you so i might have to give you a quick call to sort that. 

I'll update you once I've received word from OR

[#12]

All,

Thanks for looking into this whilst I was out playing golf, getting sunburnt etc.  😀

It is not remote as such BUT I'm pretty sure the line from the house to the exchange is what we are on and it's approx 7 to 8 miles long.

Only have the Hub Two router available to me I'm afraid.

Fling any other questions at me and I'll happily answer.

[#13]

Depending on OR's decision, i may need to book an engineer appointment with you so i might have to give you a quick call to sort that. 

I'll update you once I've received word from OR

No worries.

Just shout.

[#14]

@KenMavor As advised previously - the copper connection is from the fibre cab in the village - not from the exchange.

[#15]

just had a text from OR saying they are looking at sending an engineer out.

I'll just ask him to run fibre from the pole at the end of the road.