Problems Porting Mobile Number

[#1]

@David24 I'd just like to add to my colleague @Mads response,

Thank you for confirming a basic point that I have made several times which is there is a lack of accountability in Plusnet because you, CSRs and their managers are powerless to do anything. That’s called buck passing!

You can’t advise specific actions but can assure me they are being taken? How can you possibly offer any assurance when you lack knowledge or  control over these actions by a department remote from yourself? I think that what you are really saying is that you don’t know what your “Ops Team” are doing but have blind faith that they are doing what they are supposed to be doing. Hmm! Personally, I would as someone who is customer facing and takes the flack for others failures, want a mechanism to reassure myself that actions are indeed being taken to ensure that I can give truthful, evidence based explanations to customers leading to a prompt resolution of technical issues. Blind faith doesn’t cut it for me I’m afraid.

Sorry to see you feel that way. Like the majority of large businesses, as a customer service adviser it's not my responsibility to personally oversee the work that our Ops and Porting teams do. They'll have their own managers who do that internally. Having said that, that doesn't mean that we don't chase, because we absolutely do where appropriate.

This is not about compensation or goodwill gestures, I have stated this in my various phone calls. Ultimately what I want is my mobile number back with a reliable service. “Hopefully have no further problems to worry about” On evidence so far, I know that if I do have problems, the best I can probably hope for is blind faith. No thanks.

I completely get that you're wanting to know exactly what's being done to resolve the problem and not knowing that can sometimes lead to a lack of confidence that something is being done, however I can assure you that we are working to resolve the problem as soon as we can and I've committed to providing you with any updates on the progress I receive.

I also understand that you'd much prefer a working service as opposed to a goodwill gesture, however my offer for a goodwill gesture was simply an offer you'd have the option to take us up on should you choose to.

A simple phone call from your office would’ve identified the line disconnection problem from the very outset. Why should I have to make the example calls when a 6 year old with a phone could have identified the problem, this isn’t rocket science just a phone call. 

@Gandalf wrote: it's standard process to go through troubleshooting before raising a problem to Ops, because different issues can have the same symptoms. The examples we asked you to provide help Ops in identifying what's happening exactly at the moment you're unable to receive calls.

@newagetraveller wrote:

I suspect you hit the nail firmly on it's head, David, re hoping a customer will move (I'll not use your terminology!)and the issue  will then be the new provider's problem

That's actually not correct, because ideally we really don't want to simply pass the buck to another provider. We strive to be about ownership and taking responsibility.

I did "go away" some 18 months ago because I had a broadband/landline fault that 4 Openreach "engineers" couldn't fix. PN then appeared to lose interest and maintained there wasn't a fault. When I received a services price rise e-mail I took the opportunity to leave. I did phone to advise I was leaving and there was no attempt whatsoever to keep my custom, just a o.k., off you toddle, attitude. No doubt because I had the audacity to keep saying I had a fault with my service.

I did migrate to elsewhere and the fault was found and fixed within two weeks because my new provider pushed OR to get things done.

Sorry for the connection issues you personally had with us though, it's been a while but if I recall correctly and do correct me if I'm wrong, we were sending engineers and escalating with our suppliers with no resolution on your occasion.

And the option was there for you to leave us and go with another provider and while it is disappointing to see we were unable to arrange for your fault to be fixed, I am however happy to see that you've managed to get your connection fixed in the end and I do hope you'd choose to return to Plusnet at some point in the future.

[#2]

So I take it that “We'll update you in due course once we have further info on the porting situation for you.“ means shut up and Foxtrot Oscar. Your Plusnet customer relationship management diploma must be assured. Well done.

[#3]

@David24 I’m all for giving you more information however I’m afraid the latest we have is that the porting team is awaiting on a different provider to supply us with the correct routing data for your mobile number and they’ll be chasing things up themselves in the background. 

With that in mind, there isn’t anything more I can say at this time?

[#4]

Hi Everyone, 

Its now 16 days and the porting of my mobile number is still not resolved. This means I cannot receive any incoming calls.

As Plusnet tells me they cannot do anything about it I am now developing a systematic programme of self-escalation in the hope that Plusnet reviews its perfunctory system of “advocacy”. So today, I have:

1. Submitted a further complaint via the MSE Resolva website. I’m not expecting this to achieve much as Plusnet will simply ignore it. However, complaints are tracked by the site so they can see who is complaining about what and who, they can build up a profile and advise their subscribers accordingly. I have already submitted numerous posts on their forum to assist other potential customers over their choice of alternative providers if they are considering a change. I wish I had checked some of these sites before making the change because had I done so, I would probably not have made the move to Plusnet. Instead I relied upon my experience as a broadband/telephone customer!! A bad, very bad mistake.
2. I had a long and very productive conversation with Ofcom. Although they do not get involved in sorting out individual complaints between provider and customer, they are the regulator and need feedback about problems in order to help shape and form policy. I explained the issue which highlights a gap in the mobile telecomms industry; that is, while there are now regulations regarding the timescales in which PACs should be transferred, this does not cover failed porting. This is something that is left to providers to resolve. From my experience with Plusnet, industry self-regulation or inter-service agreements clearly don’t work so I am arguing that the industry should not be trusted because it is unsafe to do so (see ATL) and is potentially harmful to consumer choice because the inability to resolve such issues will deter users from changing provider. I am very pleased that Ofcom have taken my evidence and if any of you have experienced the same problem, then do give them a call on 0300 123 3000. They were very helpful so do give them a call. Perhaps we can help shape future regulations to ensure rogue providers have a duty to act.

I will post again tomorrow and in the days ahead the further actions I have taken. I will also keep everyone posted on the outcomes of my letters to Messrs Baker and Jansen, though one suspects the unsatisfactory complaints handling by Plusnet is perhaps a product of its leadership. But I will give them the benefit of the doub in the meantime, and you never know, I might be pleasantly surprised.

[#5]

Thanks for getting back to us @David24 We're doing what we can do to get this resolved ASAP for you.

Your issue is what's called a split port and can happen with any provider. However in no way this does mean that we're passing the buck and it's not our responsibility as it absolutely is our responsibility to fix, the delay isn't entirely within our control. We'd just be waiting on a third party provider to supply the information we need to fix the porting issue.

Apologies for the inconvenience this causes.

[edit]

We've also received your letter and one of my colleagues from our complaints team in the Advocates department has written a letter responding back that you should receive soon. They're also taking ownership of this for you moving forward.

[#6]

Hi Everyone, 

Its now 17 days and counting and the porting of my mobile number remains unresolved. This means I still cannot receive any incoming calls and have no idea how many I may have lost.

So in my bid to bring some accountability to Plusnet’s appalling customer service, here we go:

1. Following my call to Ofcom yesterday, I thought I would share that advice on a number of other forums. Consumers must make a formal complaint to the regulator so that action can be taken to make companies like Plusnet act responsibly in the interests of their customers. Judging by the responses I received, this clearly is a major issue and my problem is by no means an isolated or rare case. One particular respondent pointed me to the Ofcom 2017 review Consumer switching - Decision on reforming the switching of mobile communication services which looked at regulating the methods of requesting a PAC. They recognised that many customers experienced post porting issues but faced stiff opposition to to further regulation by the industry (my underlining): “2.21 In relation to loss of service, we acknowledged that industry had made commitments to develop and implement measures to address loss of service on a voluntary basis which we were satisfied were sufficient to adequately address our concerns, subject to sufficient progress being made. Thus, we no longer felt it to be proportionate to impose regulation regarding loss of service (for instance, through end-to-end management). However, we said that our final view on industry commitments, and whether they sufficiently delivered against our policy objectives, would depend on the progress industry made in delivering an improved porting process.” This means that where a failed porting occurs (as in my case), there are currently no consumer protections or safeguards whatsoever. Instead, the hapless punter is totally reliant upon the new provider to resolve this without guarantee that it should be done in one day, one month, one year or possibly never. The above review highlights that Ofcom already has this issue firmly on their radar but yielded to industry pressure as it sought in the first instance to embed a revised and simplified method of obtaining a PAC. So if enough of us complain, we may well be pushing at an open door. Because mobile phone numbers are now a critical part of a broader digital system, it is vital to many peoples lives, especially those that are vulnerable or elderly. If ever there was a salutary warning to customers about the dangers of changing to an inadequate provider like Plusnet, then this regulatory deficit is surely evidence of it. Self regulation or voluntary action seldom works as most companies are fixated on maximising revenue and minimising cost where often the customer becomes an unavoidable casualty.

2. On the subject of salutary warnings, I have had to contact many people to let them know about my inability to receive calls with Plusnet. Several asked if I had checked them out before switching, I said not as I’d been with Plusnet for some years and had been happy with my broadband and telephone service. This got me thinking, so I looked at Trustpilot to see what other people were saying about them. Wow, 83% of reviewers rated Plusnet as Bad, 6% Poor with a tiny 2% describing Plusnet as just average. This means that a whopping 89% are unhappy. This seems to rather contradict a lot of the so called “awards” from comparison sites and begs the question as to how independent these awards truly are (what was the exact methodology used, sampling rates, times etc) ......but this is a story for another day. The Trustpilot data also lays waste to the Plusnet directors claims that “Plusnet remain committed to giving its customers a fair deal by offering great prices and brilliant customer experience”. Contrast this against some recent Trustpilot reviewer headings: “Unbelievably incompetent”, “There is no customer service”, “Worst in UK please people stay away”, “The absolute worst of the worst...”, “Horrendous customer service”, “Stay away from joining Plusnet”, ‘Terrible”. This is just a handful from posts over the last couple of days. And here’s the Double Wow, this isn’t just a few disgruntled reviewers like me, there are literally thousands. In fact almost 5,000 reviews!! 4,355 of them regard Plusnet as bad to poor. The other interesting thing is that reviewers over and over again are complaining about the same service deficiencies I have identified in the above thread. I won’t list them again because they are too numerous and are well documented ATL. It is appalling that with thousands of reviews identifying identical customer service issues over an extended period, Plusnet have failed to take remedial action but instead try to pretend they enjoy high levels of customer satisfaction. Perhaps the Plusnet advertising strap line should more accurately read “Plusnet, we’ll do you...”, drop the last word because there doesn’t appear to be much about your company to be proud of.

3. In view of all this customer dissatisfaction, I thought it a good idea to raise my Plusnet complaint with a broadsheet consumer champion. I have provided a detailed account and fingers crossed they will get involved and help other potential customers to avoid suffering the same problems with Plusnet.

I have many, many more actions in hand so do come back tomorrow and visit this thread! Remember, nothing happens until you make it happen.

[#7]

Sorry for hijacking this David, but - "That's actually not correct, because ideally we really don't want to simply pass the buck to another provider. We strive to be about ownership and taking responsibility."

Yes it is, you did "pass the buck" by telling me that my line was fine and "passed" the tests. When there was absolutely no intention of retaining my custom do you blame me for going elsewhere. I had been a PN customer for some years and Madasafish before that.

Yes, you did arrange for "engineers", four of them and three new maser sockets later, still a fault.

Then, see above, my line "passed" when I quite clearly new there was a fault. It "passed" so no further interest from PN.

Come back in the future, really? With a tough, toddle off sort of attitude that is unlikely for at least the next 18 months because I've just re-contracted with a provider who does give a damn. During negotiating I was told, after quoting your new customer offers, oh, Plusnet, they are a budget provider and in direct competition with TalkTalk...............!

[#8]

@newagetraveller Not sure it’s fair to say we’ve been passing the buck just because we’ve been unable to get your fault fixed evidently after trying with multiple engineers to no avail.

If you know and can share what an engineer did to fix your fault, I’d be very interested to know. 

After all knowledge is power and it’ll help improve the service we provide.

[#9]

Hi Everyone,

Its now 18 Days that I have been without my ported number and still no sign of action that anyone’s doing anything or taking the matter seriously.

So today I have once again been busy contacting people about my issue.

1. Of course the fundamental problem is not just that Plusnet service is just rubbish but that it is rubbish for a reason. That reason being the unwise decision to allow mobile providers like Plusnet to voluntarily regulate or self manage “loss of service”. As things stand, there is no regulator or independent body that can intercede or to act as an interlocutor when you lose your service. In my case its a double whammy because in the normal course of events, I would request a PAC and be gone...after all consumer choice is the most powerful and often only lever the customer has; not so when it comes to a bodged porting. The failed port needs to be resolved before leaving otherwise the next provider inherits the same problem and in so doing probably makes resolution more complicated and delay resolution further. So I am stuck.
2. Mobile numbers are incredibly important because they are not just about telephone numbers and making and receiving calls, most of use use them in 2 form factor authentication processes like accessing bank or tax accounts, authorising payments. They are used to make and cancel online GP/hospital appointments in an already resource constrained NHS. I tried counting the number of web portals and services where my mobile number is a key means of identification or is used to authorise transactions and I lost count after 100. Imagine not being able to do things or worse still trying to contact all these services in the event you lost your personal mobile phone number. I am to some extent fortunate that I can receive and send text messages but other may not be so lucky. The conclusion is that managing post-porting problems or service loss is not just a matter of personal inconvenience, its one that has a wider strategic ramifications in the digital domain, whether thats interactions with the NHS, HMRC or bank. This is far to important to leave to companies like Plusnet to act voluntarily at a pace to suit themselves.
3. The revised PAC system greatly improves choice because it enables consumers to switch providers quickly and without hassle and is to be commended. So, consumers who felt captive to a provider can now escape. But, and isn’t there always one, it has the perverse affect of increasing the already high number of failed portings. This over time will result in consumers feeling trapped once again for fear of losing their mobile phone number. This may well suit providers like Plusnet who in holding customers captive can avoid the costs associated with customer churn and the effort and resources needed to compete for ever more new customers in an open market. So while porting has theoretically become easier, in reality it might prove that it achieves little in the long run. Regulations therefore need to be applied that govern service loss and impose penalties on those companies who fail to provide a proper responsive service.
4. With or without regulation, an advocacy service is needed that hold providers to account. No such independent system currently exists. Ofcom’s role is to regulate while the Ombudsman arbitration service is more to do with dispute, contractual and compensation. In my particular case, the Ombudsman role is negated by the fact that the porting issue is potentially resolvable whether in 1 day, year, decade or century. So we need technical regulation linked to an independent  body to hold recalcitrant providers like Plusnet to account.
5. As if further evidence that self regulation doesn’t work, I mentioned in my post yesterday that Plusnet has some of the worst ratings on Trustpilot. I also mentioned that there are clear repeating themes and patterns to complaints over an extended period. Many of these mirror my own experience. If Plusnet are to apathetic to do anything about these highly visible, longstanding systemic failings, how then can anyone have faith in them operating a voluntary system to deal with loss of service?
6. Pulling all these threads together, I have therefore emailed Rt Hon Damian Collins who is chair of the DCMS Committee in parliament. I have also raised this directly with Rt Hon. Matt Hancock, the Secretary of State for Health and Mrs Sharon White, the CEO of Ofcom; these are both direct stakeholders in the digital economy.

Its been a busy day but I have even more people and organisations to contact tomorrow so will keeper readers posted on progress.

[#10]

Anoush - the "engineer" who found and fixed the problem detected noise on my telephone line which, obviously, three new master sockets couldn't fix! One of them blamed the Hub One. To PN's credit they did send a new Hub One, however, this was returned because the fault still existed with that new one in use.

He checked at the cabinet, no noise, checked at the pole just outside my house, no noise. Voila, line from pole to master socket causing the problem. New cable installed, no further noise and constant usual speeds. It was that simple.

The problem only materialised after upgrading from 40/2 to 80/10. The speeds were fine for a short time after resetting the broadband but because of the noise DLM reduced the speed accordingly for stability. Therefore 38 down was no problem but 70+ down couldn't be sustained and the speeds gradually reduced by DLM.

Sorry David, but I'll not pollute your thread any further!

[#11]

Hi Everyone,

Its day 19 and still Plusnet have not sorted out my porting issues, which means I have not been able to receive ANY calls since 18th September. Yes, 18th September!!!

So here’s my update and while I don't hold out much hope of a response from Plusnet, I do expect them to provide a detailed response to item 2 below. So here goes:

1. I was touched to receive a reply from Plusnet to my post about their dreadful service on Trustpilot. Someone called **** (under this communities rules I’m not allowed to use his name, even though he posted it himself!!! A clue, he is closely related to Eve). In ****’s reply he told me he was taking “ownership” of my problem and that I should “reach out” to him via the Plusnet community forum. Blimey, this dude uses all the vernacular. I’ve responded that he should take a look at David24 posts on this very forum. I think I’ve gone well and truly beyond reaching out. However, this sums up Plusnet, because glib phrases is all they have to offer. My full name was displayed on the Trustpilot site so even a child could track this back to a customer, especially since my surname is distinctive. So he could have taken “ownership” very quickly but as usual, Plusnet customer services prefer the sound of a can to kick rather than actually doing something. Truly pathetic.

2. Someone kindly forwarded me a copy of a manual that outlines every single step that providers like Plusnet must take as part of the new PAC arrangements. Its called UK Mobile Switching & Service Termination Process Manual Issue V2.0A  and is dated July 2019. This lays out the agreed code all mobile phone providers (including Plusnet) must adhere to. In yesterday’s post, I mentioned that to avoid Ofcom regulating for “loss of service”, the industry agreed to put its own house in order and this document embodies that agreement. Page 41, deals with situations like mine. All providers are required to either resolve issues within 24 hours or to log the failure which should then be escalated to an opaque outfit called ORG. ORG should then escalate to OSG if the issue remains unresolved who in turn can report to Ofcom for further action. This of course is a highly flawed process because it relies upon companies following this code. Either Plusnet, ORG or OSG have failed to follow the agreed protocol. In theory, each provider has 24 hours in which to resolve or report. So in my case I have three providers in my chain, Plusnet, EE and O2 as previous providers with the latter being the original number provider. This means taking into account the initial reporting day, the issue should have been sorted out in 4 days. This fits with the reporting table that specifies 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5+ days. So the expectation is that it shouldn’t take beyond 5 days. Plusnet Action: if you have abided by industry rules you must be able to provide copies of reporting logs in order to be compliant with audit requirements so I want copies of all reports on my porting issue to evidence you have indeed complied with your own industry standards. If you are unable to provide this, I will take it that you have failed to comply with them and will register a specific complaint with Ofcom regarding this breach. I have already contacted OSG (Mobile Number Portability Operator Steering Group) so they will be aware that a potential breach has taken place.

3. I thought I would write to Which?, the consumer affairs association about my porting issue which is by no means unique. The association undertakes regular reviews and looks at specific problems that crop-up which can negatively impact or harm consumers. I have written a very detailed summary of the general issues about PAC loss of service and highlighted how Ofcom have been duped into allowing industry self regulation. Hopefully this will renew the debate and help build pressure on Ofcom to deal with this loss of service issues properly.

I’ll post again tomorrow with further actions and updates, in the meantime the Plusnet CEO hasn’t bothered to respond to my letter, something others here have complained about, so I won’t waste anymore time with him but will get in touch directly with the parent company about some future actions I plan to take. Who knows, I may even pop in for a surprise visit!

[#12]

I don't know whether it's relevant to your porting problem, but are you aware that the Plusnet service is actually run by French company Transatel. They provide MVNO services to many organisations. I would imagine that when Plusnet refer to their Ops team, they mean a team in France. I wonder whether, as a French company they are covered by UK porting regulations.

[#13]

Thanks for getting back to us @David24 

I do sincerely apologise again for the time it's taking to fix your porting issue. We are doing everything we can to resolve this as soon as possible and as soon as we've got anything new in the form of updates to share we'll let you know.

@jgfrancis Our Ops team are in-house (In fact, normally sat in the next room away from me). This problem hasn't anything to do with our suppliers. I'm afraid as per further up this thread, we're waiting on routing data from another provider.

[#14]

Thanks JGF. As Plusnet are the provider they, or their sub-contractors, would be legally obliged to comply with UK regulations and any agreed industry codes of practice. Failure to do so could lead to loss of their operators licence. However its interesting to know because there are a lot of opaque organisations involved whose roles need to be better understood.

[#15]

Thanks Gandalf, I realise its a platitude you have to go through to keep up the pretence of customer service and that you care about my outage. But please don’t bother to reply unless you have something constructive to say. I did however request a response regarding copy logs to evidence that you and others in the “resolution” chain, including the OSG, have taken action the correct action in a timely manner. I can go to Ofcom and register a formal complaint if you prefer. You will have my email on your system so you can send it to me privately.