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452 error

Denzil
Grafter
Posts: 1,733
Registered: 31-07-2007

452 error

I deal with enquiries to a charity, and I regularly use the charity's webmail service to reply. This will need some explaining -  I receive an email sent to name@charity.com, which is redirected to me at address@username.plus.com. If I answer using the webmail it cc's my reply back to name@charity.com, which, again, gets cc'ed to address@username.plus.com. I hope that makes sense Undecided
I have just received a non-delivered warning (sent to name@charity.com) about an email I sent.
Quote
This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
A message that you sent has not yet been delivered to one or more of
its recipients after 25 hours.
The message has not yet been delivered to the following addresses:
<address@username.plus.com>

SMTP error from remote server after RCPT command:
host mx-ironport.core.plus.net[84.92.2.97]:
452 Too many recipients received this hour

So it is being rejected by Plusnet's server. What does the last line mean, and does it mean I might be missing other emails?
11 REPLIES
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 8,876
Thanks: 407
Fixes: 36
Registered: 06-04-2007

Re: 452 error

Strictly it isn't a non-delivery report it's a yet-to-be-delivered report. The problem is that the number of messages received per hour from anyone using the sending server to the Plusnet IronPort servers currently exceeds their policy limit for that server. So the message hasn't been accepted. This is a form of grey-listing used to combat potential spam. Genuine senders will almost certainly try again and it could be accepted then, spam senders probably won't.
You might find the message turns up in the next day or so, but if delivery is repeatedly unsuccessful eventually you will get a delivery-failed report.
If you can post sanitised headers for an email sent by the charity webmail that did get to you further comment might be possible.
See also similar issues in topic Missing emails
David
David
Denzil
Grafter
Posts: 1,733
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: 452 error

I have had another delay notification forwarded by someone else, and I am seeing replies that a colleague has made to emails I should have seen, but haven't, so there is definitely a problem. I'll post some sample headers when I get home later.
Frak
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered: 18-03-2009

Re: 452 error

Hi Denzil,
Just out of interest, who is your domain (ie. charity.com) registered with?
I've been seeing a very similar problem to you over the last 10 days or so with my domain (which is configured to forward on to my real PlusNet mailbox, in much the same way as yours).  Having raised a support ticket with PlusNet, I've now been advised that it's because my domain is registered with OneAndOne (or 1And1 depending on how you spell it) - the new PlusNet mail servers are seemingly more fussy than they perhaps should be with any message that has arrived from a 1And1 server...
Cheers
-Frak
Denzil
Grafter
Posts: 1,733
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: 452 error

Our webmaster looks after that, but doing some digging I end up at One and One, with a server in Germany belonging to Schlund + Partner AG.
http://whois.domaintools.com/82.165.84.38
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 8,876
Thanks: 407
Fixes: 36
Registered: 06-04-2007

Re: 452 error

Quote from: Denzil
Our webmaster looks after that, but doing some digging I end up at One and One, with a server in Germany…

Thank you, that is what I wanted to check from the headers I requested earlier.
This confirms the problem is the same as that mentioned in the topic Missing emails I linked to in reply #1. I believe anyone sending mail from a 1and1 server to a Plusnet email user is likely to have their messages delayed because Plusnet's messages per hour policy setting for the 1and1 servers is too restrictive.
I suggest you raise a ticket concerning this problem, refer to this thread and mention the other one too; include headers for a typical message that you have received . I'd appreciate feedback on the responses you receive.
Posting sanitised headers as mentioned in your reply #2 remains of interest.
David
David
Denzil
Grafter
Posts: 1,733
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: 452 error

Here's the header from a recent one that did make it through. Italics for sanitised bits.
Quote
Return-path: <SRS0=gMGc=7P=aol.com=sender@srs.kundenserver.de>
Envelope-to: mailbox@username.plus.com
Delivery-date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:22:23 +0000
Received: from [212.159.7.103] (helo=mx.pcl-ipin04.plus.net) by
pih-sunmxcore19.plus.net with esmtp (PlusNet MXCore v2.00) id
1LjLCQ-0000WC-S6  for mailbox@username.plus.com; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 22:22:22
+0000
Authentication-Results: mx.pcl-ipin04.plus.net; dkim=neutral (message not
signed) header.i=none
Received-SPF: None identity=pra; client-ip=212.227.126.186;
receiver=mx.pcl-ipin04.plus.net;
envelope-from="SRS0=gMGc=7P=aol.com=sender@srs.kundenserver.de";
x-sender="sender@aol.com"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible
Received-SPF: Pass identity=mailfrom; client-ip=212.227.126.186;
receiver=mx.pcl-ipin04.plus.net;
envelope-from="SRS0=gMGc=7P=aol.com=sender@srs.kundenserver.de";
x-sender="SRS0=gMGc=7P=aol.com=sender@srs.kundenserver.de";
x-conformance=sidf_compatible
Received-SPF: Pass identity=helo; client-ip=212.227.126.186;
receiver=mx.pcl-ipin04.plus.net;
envelope-from="SRS0=gMGc=7P=aol.com=sender@srs.kundenserver.de";
x-sender="postmaster@moutng.kundenserver.de"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible
X-SBRS: 0.4
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
AqICAOptvknU4366aGdsb2JhbACCIi+RYSKBAQ0LAwcHEQO+foN/Bg
X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5100,188,5555"; a="53811600"
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,375,1233532800";
d="scan'208,217";a="53811600"
Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de ([212.227.126.186]) by
mx.pcl-ipin04.plus.net with ESMTP; 16 Mar 2009 22:21:57 +0000
Received: from imo-m22.mail.aol.com (imo-m22.mx.aol.com [64.12.137.3]) by
mx.kundenserver.de (node=mxeu3) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id
0MKqIe-1LjKzc3RPJ-000WKt for mailbox@charityname.org.uk; Mon,
16 Mar 2009 23:09:26 +0100
Received: from sender@aol.com by imo-m22.mx.aol.com  (mail_out_v39.1.) id
2.c1b.48e41aa1 (30737) for <mailbox@charityname.org.uk>; Mon,
16 Mar 2009 18:07:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: sender@aol.com
Message-ID: <c1b.48e41aa1.36f027a3@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:07:31 EDT
To: mailbox@charityname.org.uk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-----------------------------1237241251"
X-Mailer: 9.0 SE for Windows sub 5045
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-PN-Virus-Filtered: by PlusNet MXCore (v5.00)
X-PN-Spam-Filtered: by PlusNet MXCore (v5.00)
Subject: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
X-Evolution-Source: pop://username@mail.plus.net/

And the source of a bounce notification.
Quote
Return-path: <>
Envelope-to: mailbox@username.plus.com
Delivery-date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:03:24 +0000
Received: from [212.159.7.34] (helo=mx.ptn-ipin02.plus.net) by
pih-sunmxcore09.plus.net with esmtp (PlusNet MXCore v2.00) id
1LjuUW-0001QR-Dl  for mailbox@username.plus.com; Wed, 18 Mar 2009 12:03:24
+0000
Authentication-Results: mx.ptn-ipin02.plus.net; dkim=neutral (message not
signed) header.i=none
Received-SPF: None identity=pra; client-ip=212.227.15.23;
receiver=mx.ptn-ipin02.plus.net; envelope-from="";
x-sender="mailer-daemon@kundenserver.de"; x-conformance=sidf_compatible
Received-SPF: Pass identity=mailfrom; client-ip=212.227.15.23;
receiver=mx.ptn-ipin02.plus.net; envelope-from="";
x-sender="postmaster@mout-bounce.kundenserver.de";
x-conformance=sidf_compatible
Received-SPF: Pass identity=helo; client-ip=212.227.15.23;
receiver=mx.ptn-ipin02.plus.net; envelope-from="";
x-sender="postmaster@mout-bounce.kundenserver.de";
x-conformance=sidf_compatible
X-SBRS: 0.0
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result:
As8KABCAwEnU4w8XZGdsb2JhbACNAiEBiDwaCwMFCRAEQKwvh22IOYQCYQ
X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5300,2777,5556"; a="51071590"
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.38,384,1233532800";  d="scan'208";a="51071590"
Received: from mout-bounce.kundenserver.de ([212.227.15.23]) by
mx.ptn-ipin02.plus.net with ESMTP; 18 Mar 2009 12:03:23 +0000
Received: from mout-bounce.kundenserver.de (mout-bounce.kundenserver.de
[212.227.15.20]) by mx.kundenserver.de (node=mxeu1) with ESMTP (Nemesis) id
0MKpV6-1LjuUV25na-000H7f for mailbox@charityname.org.uk; Wed,
18 Mar 2009 13:03:23 +0100
Received: from mout by moeu2.kundenserver.de id 0MKr6E-1LjuTX1jNy-000jJS;
Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:02:23 +0100
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 13:02:23 +0100
From: Mail Delivery System <mailer-daemon@kundenserver.de>
To: mailbox@charityname.org.uk
Message-Id: <0MKr6E-1LjuTX1jNy-000jJS@moeu2.kundenserver.de>
X-Original-Id: 0MKqpg-1LjA9M2JKl-0002Kv
X-PN-Virus-Filtered: by PlusNet MXCore (v5.00)
X-PN-Spam-Filtered: by PlusNet MXCore (v5.00)
Subject: Warning: message delayed 2 days
X-Evolution-Source: pop://username@mail.plus.net/
Mime-Version: 1.0
This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
A message that you sent has not yet been delivered to one or more of
its recipients after 2 days.
The message has not yet been delivered to the following addresses:
  <maillbox@username.plus.com>
SMTP error from remote server after RCPT command:
host mx-ironport.core.plus.net[84.92.2.97]:
452 Too many recipients received this hour
No action is required on your part. Delivery attempts will continue for
some time, and this warning may be repeated at intervals if the message
remains undelivered. Eventually the mail delivery software will give up,
and when that happens, the message will be returned to you.
--- The header of the original message is following. ---
Received: from moutng.kundenserver.de (moutng.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.188])
        by mx.kundenserver.de (node=mxeu5) with ESMTP (Nemesis)
        id 0MKqpg-1LjA9M1F4e-0002Kv for mailbox@charityname.org.uk; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:34:28 +0100
Received: from infong334.kundenserver.de (infong334.kundenserver.de [212.227.119.151])
        by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (node=mreu1) with ESMTP (Nemesis)
        id 0MKv1o-1LjA9K2q6F-000k9e; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:34:26 +0100
Received: from 91.85.64.161 (IP may be forged by CGI script)
    by infong334.kundenserver.de with HTTP
    id 4AgEYp-1LjA9K1I3D-0003mK; Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:34:26 +0100
X-Sender-Info: <127730600@infong334.kundenserver.de>
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 11:34:26 +0100
Message-Id: <4AgEYp-1LjA9K1I3D-0003mK@infong334.kundenserver.de>
Precedence: bulk
To: Display Name <sender@hotmail.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Help
from: mailbox@charityname.org.uk
X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/7AQoAZQZKp3GQELCDBPNoV543IK2g1x0hMmk
YKcw+os9RsIV9rsrr9B9yKSyoPS2xDkJozuRdZ512iDeCSYtsc
WpjTTrzwsQ=

Off to raise a ticket now...

James
Grafter
Posts: 21,036
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: 452 error

Morning guys.
This is related to Problem 55739 which we'll try and get some resource onto this morning.
Denzil
Grafter
Posts: 1,733
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: 452 error

Thanks, James.
Denzil
Grafter
Posts: 1,733
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: 452 error

I suddenly have a few days worth of delayed emails arriving all at once this afternoon! I don't know if that was down to the work being done, or if they have got through anyway. If the former - thank you.
Community Gaffer
Community Gaffer
Posts: 12,799
Thanks: 630
Fixes: 62
Registered: 04-04-2007

Re: 452 error

We've changed the throttling thresholds for this host now so can people keep their eye on things and let me know whether or not the situation improves?

Bob Pullen
Plusnet Products Team
If I've been helpful then please give thanks ⤵

Denzil
Grafter
Posts: 1,733
Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: 452 error

I got our webmaster to change the redirects so I now pick up the charity mail direct from our server. Thanks, anyway, I'll let you know if I see any more problems.