UK among nations that have done least

[#1]

Yet another thread ruined by Nanotm. 
Plusnet; is there anything that can be done about this? I recognise that everyone is perfectly entitled to an opinion, and to express and debate it, however I feel these threads are being repeatedly polluted by inane drivel. Regardless of the topic being discussed yet again we have got completely bogged down battling utterly arrogant ignorance.

[#2]

Quote from: nanotm

you would need to look at 5 separate sections of the manual in order to actually put it all together and find a warning about it, well that depends what isp supplied the router of course some don't have any warning about anything in them

Can you tell us which ISP supplies the Billion BiPAC 7800DX to it's customers ? 

I think it is unlikely that ANY ISP would supply an ADSL router that sells around £158 ! 
http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/Shop/ShopDetail.asp?ProductID=16292

[#3]

Quote from: nanotm

as for the number of addresses allowed on a subnet allocation, someone from plusnet already made the point that they would be limited in a different thread, and the reason being was because a single /64 contains enough addresses to cater for most of the world, if every customer had unlimited address capability the isp's would need something the size of the millennium dome just to house the dns servers, never mind that they would need to populate every possible address unit into the fields and maintain a live update stream to track if those endpoints were connected and in use or not, limiting address allocation use down to under 500 per/64 subnet whilst extreamly wastefull (in ipv4 thinking) is actually rather clever in terms of future expandability address separation means that it will be a lot less likely for address duplication

Just because something has an IP address doesn't mean it has to have a DNS entry. So unless you want to enable something elsewhere on the internet to access something on your LAN by name there is no need for a DNS entry. For outgoing connections when a device on your internal network opens a session it may (usually) first do a DNS lookup to get the IP address. It will then access the remote computer/server by IP address and it will respond to your IP address. It is quite possible to establish a session without either end having DNS entries pointing to the IPs. (Note nowhere in that have I said v4 or v6).
Quite frankly we need something the size of the millennium dome to house all the garbage you are spouting!

[#4]

Quote from: jelv

Quite frankly we need something the size of the millennium dome to house all the garbage you are spouting!

I would have thought sending 'nanotm' to the seventh planet from the sun would be sufficient !
Then 'nanotm' would then be in no doubt that he is talking from Uranus 

[#5]

Quote from: purleigh

I would have thought sending 'nanotm' to the seventh planet from the sun would be sufficient ! Then 'nanotm' would then be in no doubt that he is talking from Uranus

that made me chuckle, particularly when viewed with your inability to understand I wasn't talking about the router I use but the ones dished out like candy by several isp's

@paul I would of quoted the post had it not been deleted by a moderator along with several other pages of posts deemed outside of the topic, sadly though I cant

[#6]

What post were you looking for ?
The moderators here rarely delete anything other than threads that have repeated personal attacks, but more likely split a bunch of posts into a new topic so as not to ruin a thread with a large number of off-topic replies.

[#7]

Quote from: nanotm

I wasn't talking about the router I use but the ones dished out like candy by several isp's

So why make the statement about unrelated ISP supplied routers as part of the same sentence regarding the difficulty in quoting multiple sections of YOUR router handbook ?
Your point was that YOUR expensive router allegedly disables the firewall when you enable port forwarding,  but now you are saying it doesn't but instead it is the cheap routers handed out by ISPs that are the real problem !.  So name a model number of an ISP supplied router that disables the firewall in the way you describe.

[#8]

as to the rest,
dns on ipv6 is not the same as dns under ipv4,
the 128bit address utilised by every piece of internet connected equipment will have to be listed in there domain name server under statefull configuration on a server by an isp in order for them to route the traffic to the consumer device from wherever it is initiated otherwise there routing equipment will blackhole the packets as destination unrecognised or the other option would be there going to be broadcasting every packet received to every consumer device (which would overload the network)
and every device in every consumer location that is ipv6 capable would need a separate address in order for it to be useable, those items that are purely for LAN usage (like printers) should get there address from a ULA service and not be listed at the ISP, the problem with that is the grade of router required in order to be able to run everything, it will also need its own ipv6 address.
so yes isp's will need a huge number of servers to provide that ability unless they limit the number of addresses available which will in turn limit the number of devices that can be simultaneously connected from any 1 residence, look at the residential customer base of plusnet (with the figures from isp review which are bound ot be inaccurate) there sitting at 6,799,000 if all of them have 20 internet connected devices plusnet will need to provide 135,980,000 entries in there server(s) and that's assuming they all correctly limit the devices they don't want to provide full internet access on (which most people wont because they don't understand how to) so even if that address base is solely used to provide routing information and not broadcast globaly its still going to need ot be there, currently that list is rather much smaller since all those cheap nasty home routers utilise NAT (in whatever iteration) to split a single ip address to any number of devices......
if this means I incorrectly used the label dns then so be it but i'm pretty certain its the same way that its described in all the documentation Ive been able to find
EDIT;
and yes I know 20 is probably on the high side for most customers but its on the low side for a fair number as well so it seemed like a sensible average to give the scope

[#9]

Quote from: purleigh

Quote from: nanotm I wasn't talking about the router I use but the ones dished out like candy by several isp's So why make the statement about unrelated ISP supplied routers as part of the same sentence regarding the difficulty in quoting multiple sections of YOUR router handbook ? Your point was that YOUR expensive router allegedly disables the firewall when you enable port forwarding,  but now you are saying it doesn't but instead it is the cheap routers handed out by ISPs that are the real problem !.   So name a model number of an ISP supplied router that disables the firewall in the way you describe.

no my point was that it was a problem common with cheap routers and that of the few that didn't suffer the problem in the sub £500 bracket mine was one,
then I made a comment to jelv that the only way to actually find it was to search through the entire manual and cross reference what your reading in the different sections to get the information, that my rather blasé post was made by paraphrasing rather than copy + paste the information from multiple parts, perhaps my scatter gun approach to multithreading things is why so much confusion is caused
as to the offer to help, i'm absolutely certain that it was deleted because the thread it was in shrunk by 8 pages where we all got a bit carried away and travelled at a wild tangent before it's being locked for ye more deviations,  but nonetheless I do sincerely thankyou
NB;
i'm also sure that since this one has travelled so widely from its original point there will be large deletions and or another lock,
but on the off chance it doesn't suffer the same fate perhaps I should try throwing it back at the starting point with the primary reason why they wont get ipv6 natively operating properly in the uk is because to much of the networking gear is unable to be flashed to become ipv6 aware and until its financially viable to roll through replacing it all we will be forced down some totally awful ipv4 life extension programme with severely limited ipv6 capabilities and completely fail to capitalise on the usefulness of most of its advantages completely regardless of its detractors and being the last country to fully support it wont make a jot of difference to the media spin that will be pushed onto looking at our connection speeds which will doubtless dwarf those of other much more compliant nations

[#10]

Quote from: nanotm

your inability to understand I wasn't talking about ...

Don't you find it at all worrying that NOBODY understands anything you are talking about, or even what point you are trying to make ?

Quote

the 128bit address utilised by every piece of internet connected equipment will have to be listed in there domain name server under statefull configuration on a server by an isp in order for them to route the traffic to the consumer device from wherever it is initiated otherwise there routing equipment will blackhole the packets as destination unrecognised or the other option would be there going to be broadcasting every packet received to every consumer device (which would overload the network)

No !,  this has already been explained over and over !.
The standard IPv6 customer allocation is a /64,  so the ISP and DNS servers only need inspect the most significant 64 bits of the (128 bit) IPv6 address to identify which customer's phone line to shove any incoming packets along.
The final routing of the individual IPv6 addresses to specific machines on the LAN will be done by the customer's gateway router.
Therefore the ISP only needs ONE entry in their routing table for each customer - the /64 subnet.
Hence there is no need to limit the number of devices that a customer uses within their /64 (2⁶⁴) address range.

[#11]

Assuming there is any benefit (for me) in having ipv6, do I get a static identifier for the network portion (64 bits)?
So a visit to Amazon would likely be followed by their spam adverts on a Google page...
It would be like passing a global cookie to all web sites that I visit.

[#12]

Yes you will get a static /64 prefix.
How is that different from customers on a static IPv4 address now ?

[#13]

Quote from: nanotm

if this means I incorrectly used the label dns then so be it but i'm pretty certain its the same way that its described in all the documentation Ive been able to find

Bit by bit we are getting him to admit that he actually doesn't have a clue what he is talking about!

[#14]

Quote from: jelv

Bit by bit we are getting him to admit that he actually doesn't have a clue what he is talking about!

The trouble is that the topic being IPv6, that we have 128 'bits' to unravel !   

[#15]

Aaaaaarrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhhh!!!!!!!