Will plusnet provide a voip landline service?

[#1]

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@Batfrog wrote:

Back to the core subject, will Plusnet be offering a ‘landline’ service ? A growing number of people I know, including many members of my own family don’t have a landline and some  that do don’t use it or even have a phone plugged in. Instead they have one or more mobiles.

If a growing number of people don’t use a landline why start a new service for a shrinking market ?  There is a contradiction there with Plusnet – Why are they closing their mobile service ?

The answer I suspect is as other have said, Plusnet is slowly being ‘dissolved’ into BT. I wouldn’t mind betting that one day soon Plusnet customers will wake up to find they have become BT customers, at least they will be as their contracts end.

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The problem for us is that we can't get a mobile signal in the house, only way we can sort of use a mobile here is to hold the phone out of one of the bedroom windows.  Not practical for making a call, and even when it connects it's not very reliable as a connection.  As a consequence we only have cheap PAYG SIMs in our phones (both go weeks or months without being used) so we can't use wifi calling either.

Wifi calling isn't a solution for phone calls in an emergency anyway, as every time we get a power cut here the broadband goes down within about half an hour (nothing to do with backup power our end - it's the cabinet that stops working).  I think I've found a way to retain an emergency phone connection, using a directional external antenna array, a 4G gateway and the ATA.  It seems to work OK, plus it gives us a limited speed emergency internet connection.  I've been assured that the mobile mast the antennas are pointing at has an emergency backup power supply.

Not a cheap or particularly easy solution, and certainly not one that I'd expect as some sort of package offered by any broadband company, but it does seem to work.  I've offered to help install an identical system for a neighbour (they are slightly older than us) as they are in the same boat, and don't want to lose their phone connection when the power goes off. 

[#2]

@JSHarris   The problem for us is that we can't get a mobile signal in the house, only way we can sort of use a mobile here is to hold the phone out of one of the bedroom windows.  Not practical for making a call, and even when it connects it's not very reliable as a connection.  As a consequence we only have cheap PAYG SIMs in our phones (both go weeks or months without being used) so we can't use wifi calling either.

I can sympathise with you more than you might imagine. Mobile coverage has to me always been a bit of a nonsense when they claim 98% coverage – what they mean of course is 98% of the population most of whom live in towns and cities !

Sadly [for you] it is as ever the bean counters who have the last say and if that means you’re in a minority where they can’t make a profit then I’m afraid it’s also a case of ‘tough’!  Note all the rural groups installing their own fibre, even doing their own donkey work digging trenches – hmm’ I wonder how cost effective that is ?

Last year on holiday in a remote cottage in North Wales I was amazed to find the ‘broadband’ with a speed of over 700mbs. I was expecting 1 or 2mbs! The owner lived adjacent and when I asked who the ISP was I discovered it was a private network via a radio link – cost a fortune to install and use but it was justified due to an on line business.

Apart from Virgin most of the rest of ISPs are dependant on BT to deliver their networks and once again the bean counters rule the day. My son lives in quite a populus area where Virgin have a virtual monopoly. Plusnet, and I assume others ISPs  too can only offer 31 - 35mbs via a fibre connection and that’s only recently become available. Even BT are only offering 29-36Mbs. The point is that Virgin have already got the majority so the bean counters no doubt once again rule and say it’s not worth the investment.

[#3]

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@Batfrog wrote:

I can sympathise with you more than you might imagine. Mobile coverage has to me always been a bit of a nonsense when they claim 98% coverage – what they mean of course is 98% of the population most of whom live in towns and cities !

Sadly [for you] it is as ever the bean counters who have the last say and if that means you’re in a minority where they can’t make a profit then I’m afraid it’s also a case of ‘tough’!  Note all the rural groups installing their own fibre, even doing their own donkey work digging trenches – hmm’ I wonder how cost effective that is ?

Last year on holiday in a remote cottage in North Wales I was amazed to find the ‘broadband’ with a speed of over 700mbs. I was expecting 1 or 2mbs! The owner lived adjacent and when I asked who the ISP was I discovered it was a private network via a radio link – cost a fortune to install and use but it was justified due to an on line business.

Apart from Virgin most of the rest of ISPs are dependant on BT to deliver their networks and once again the bean counters rule the day. My son lives in quite a populus area where Virgin have a virtual monopoly. Plusnet, and I assume others ISPs  too can only offer 31 - 35mbs via a fibre connection and that’s only recently become available. Even BT are only offering 29-36Mbs. The point is that Virgin have already got the majority so the bean counters no doubt once again rule and say it’s not worth the investment.

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A group of us have been trying to get better connectivity locally for several years now.  We initially looked at funding a microcell mast, to provide mobile coverage just along our valley.  A local farmer (one of the group) agreed to donate a bit of land and dig trenches for the cables, but the cost was still very high.

We then looked at getting FTTP, but the cost was just as high, the quote from OpenReach was around £35,000 per connection.  We had hoped that the introduction of the new emergency services network might help, as they've put up a small mast locally to provide coverage for that.  Unfortunately the ESN people are adamant that they cannot allow any other mobile service to use that mast.  Right now we've been told that the earliest we may get FTTP is 2030.

[#4]

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@bmc wrote:

@rmappleby 

A&A seem to understand the process and have successfully ported several PlusNet numbers after members switched to either FTTP or SOGEA.

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I talked to A&A and PN several times today, and the summary is that the only mechanism available to port out the landline number as part of the SoGEA or FTTP order is for PN to cease the phone line. That will cause the landline number to go into a "quarantine" state, where it will be kept for 90 days. After those 90 days the number will return to the range owner (BT in my case) where it presumably becomes available for reuse/reallocation.

But the key information is that during those 90 days in "quarantine" the number can be retrieved as part of a port-in process by a VoIP provider. 

So it seems that the way to do this is to go ahead with the SoGEA order, and when that becomes active, initiate the port-in of the landline number (which by then will be in quarantine) with your chosen VoIP supplier. A&A quoted me 10 working days to port in the number during which time the phone number will be inaccessible. I imagine that they expect to beat that, but tbh I can live with a fortnight outage of the landline now, to maintain it into the future.

I'm going to set up an A&A account and then go ahead and try out the above process. Will post the outcome here in due course...

[#5]

Spent an hour or so pricing up options for when the PSTN is shutdown.  Interesting exercise, as it involved a lot of looking back through old bills to work out details like call costs, numbers called, durations, etc, so I could plug those numbers in to VOIP options and see how the prices compare.  In general, the main takeaways are that VOIP call charges are a fair bit lower, but that there are semi-hidden extra costs from using VOIP, so call charges aren't the only cost.

We have a standard FTTC package from Plusnet, including line rental and the evening and weekend call package.  We do make calls outside of the evening and weekend slots, so on average we incur around £7.50/month in extra charges.  Our monthly Plusnet costs are £35.73, plus call charges of around £7.50, so roughly £43 per month in total for broadband and phone.

Best option after the PSTN ceases to work will be to switch the Plusnet broadband to SoGEA and then use Andrews & Arnold VOIP, running over our 4G router, with an Andrews & Arnold data SIM (which has a real IP - apparently important for VOIP).  The costs of this lot is far more fragmented, and made up from several different elements.  Easy bit is Plusnet SoGEA, at £26.99/month.

If we always use VOIP over 4G for the phones (so we have a working phone in a power cut), then the phone costs are made up of the VOIP charge of £1.44/month, the data SIM cost of £2/month, the VOIP 4G data charge for calls of about £2.50/month (assuming 0.3Mbs for calls) and VOIP call charges of about £1.92/month.  Adding this lot up comes to a total of around £35/month for the combination of Plusnet SoGEA and A&A 4G VOIP.

I'll admit to being a bit surprised that the Plusnet SoGEA together with A&A 4G VOIP is significantly cheaper than our present Plusnet package, TBH.  If our FTTC broadband was more robust, so we didn't need the 4G connection, then we could save another £4.50/month.

[#6]

You could get a grandstream HT801 VOIP ATA to connect ther present dect phone to voip - one off cost is £50 - £60, this may be more convenient then using mobiles.

as for alwayson phones - all this comss stuff seems to run on 12v - it's easy to find a 12v battery to connect between the PSU and router, etc - cat of nine tails power cord - about £5 on ebay.

[#7]

I 

Moderators Note

Repeating total previous post is unnecessary and against Forum rules

I already have a 4G router and a Cisco SPA112 ATA though, so why would buying another bit of kit give me any advantage?

As for power supplies then they are all over the place.  Our main router runs on 19V DC, the Cisco ATA runs on 5V DC, the 4G gateway runs on anything from 8V to 48V DC, the HG612 VDSL modem runs on 12V DC.  All are connected to a cheap APS uninterruptible power supply, and that is powered from our emergency backup power circuit.  We need the UPS as the emergency supply takes a second or so to switch over when the power goes down - nuisance, as the various bits of kit take time to re-boot and connect.

I've found that home power security isn't the only issue.  Our fibre cabinet shuts down around half an hour into a power cut, so if we used that for the VOIP phone we'd lose the phone, even though we've got a pretty robust back up supply that will keep us going for a couple of days or more.

[#8]

@JSHarris We have a standard FTTC package from Plusnet, including line rental and the evening and weekend call package.  We do make calls outside of the evening and weekend slots, so on average we incur around £7.50/month in extra charges.  Our monthly Plusnet costs are £35.73, plus call charges of around £7.50, so roughly£43 per month in total for broadband and phone.

Long story short we have Plusnet FTTC but with anytime calls. At the moment we’re paying £24.86pcm (inc reduction £5 referral credit) at least until the next annual price hike, a couple of months after that my contract ends. When it ends Plusnet are quoting £54.39 out of contract – No way Pedro !

Given the other half’s propensity for frequent hour long phone calls this is an unbeatable deal.

I’m a bit miffed that after 20 odd years with Plusnet they want to charge me more for FTTP than a new customer but not really surprised, mind you I haven’t actually ask them yet !

I also have an A&A VOIP number as a trial but I’m also interested in ‘Virtual Landline’ and their ‘UK Unlimited’ package at £7.95 https://www.virtuallandline.co.uk/tariffs . Anyone had any experience with them? Over the last couple of years we’ve used around 900minutes pcm, a mixture of landline and mobile which I’ve yet to breakdown, although I suspect the balance is tipping towards mobile.

Point is if I could get a reliable 75mbs fibre connection for about £25 + an unlimited call package for £7.95 preferably via VOIP that wouldn’t be too bad.

[#9]

@Batfrog , I admit to struggling to get my head around Plusnet pricing.  It seems almost as if prices are made up on the fly, given the variability that's reported here and elsewhere for the same package.  I've just read that I could get SoGEA as a new customer for a couple of pounds cheaper than as a long standing customer - what on earth is that about?

Our contract is up in a few months time, so I think I'll ring Plusnet and see what sort of a deal I can get.  I really hate doing this, and would much rather just have a firm price provided, but from what I've read it seems there's a need to haggle in order to get the best price.

[#10]

Original post didn't say you already had a ups, ata, etc

Forgive me for suggesting the, but my post drill may help others.

[#11]

@peterhr 

In my first post in this thread about three weeks ago I tried to explain what I was doing to address the shutdown of the PSTN, and hopefully provide a robust VOIP solution:

"With the loss of the PSTN I need to do something to ensure we can make calls in an emergency, but VOIP via Plusnet's FTTC won't provide this reliably.  I can run all the kit my end OK when the mains fails as we have a standby power system (because we get so many power cuts).  The problem is that the battery backup in the FTTC cabinet falls over about 20 minutes after the power goes off, so we lose broadband.  This would mean that we also lose any VOIP phone service, even if we can power the kit our end OK.

To get around this I've been experimenting with a second hand commercial grade 4G gateway, connected to a pair of large directional antennas mounted on a 12ft pole bolted to the side of the house.  Using this system I can get a usable 2G/3G signal that's fast enough to handle VOIP.  This works fine with the fairly cheap A&A VOIP service and a £5/month SIM from Lebara.  Like the PSTN, I understand that the mobile masts have backup power that will keep them going for a long period if the grid supply goes down.  As long as I can power our kit for a couple of days we should be alright (longest power cut we've ever had was about 30 hours, most are around 4 to 8 hours)."

Since then something has changed with the OpenReach cabinet, as we've had three power cuts in recent weeks and it now seems that the FTTC broadband cabinet stays up for about 35 minutes.  Better than it was in the last round of power cuts in the spring, but still not great when we often be without power for 8 hours or more.

Best solution would be for the electricity company to make the grid robust, but that involves a lot of investment for cables that only supply a few homes, so it doesn't make economic sense for them.  It's cheaper for them to just pay us compensation for any long duration outage than it is to fix their local network, much of which dates back more than 50 years.

[#12]

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I’m a bit miffed that after 20 odd years with Plusnet they want to charge me more for FTTP than a new customer but not really surprised, mind you I haven’t actually ask them yet !

I also have an A&A VOIP number as a trial but I’m also interested in ‘Virtual Landline’ and their ‘UK Unlimited’ package at £7.95 https://www.virtuallandline.co.uk/tariffs . Anyone had any experience with them? Over the last couple of years we’ve used around 900minutes pcm, a mixture of landline and mobile which I’ve yet to breakdown, although I suspect the balance is tipping towards mobile.

Point is if I could get a reliable 75mbs fibre connection for about £25 + an unlimited call package for £7.95 preferably via VOIP that wouldn’t be too bad.

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There are no brownie points for loyalty these days. It basically boils down to getting a preferential deal when you enter into contract but automatically moving to a more expensive deal once it ends. Sometimes you can "haggle", but not always.

I did come across VirtualLandline while researching VOIP providers and their "UK Unlimited" plan for £7.95 per month looked like a good deal until I asked about their concept of "users". "It means devices" came the reply. Apparently each device that is registered counts as another user. "So if I have Linphone on a couple of PCs at home and on my mobile phone that would be 3 users" I asked - "Yes" came the reply. Adding the DECT phone plugged into the ATA would presumably be adding another user? Given the propensity for sales advice to vary depending on who you speak with, I would be interested in knowing whether this advice was in error or whether anyone else has been given this definition of of a "user"? It, sort of, makes sense from a business perspective where each employee using the service would be a user, but somehow not for home users.

[#13]

What I like - now I have an independent voip account - is the ability to switch ìSP with no consideration of phone (or other bundled) service.

I'm hoping that that having moved from Plusnet, I have also moved from cost of living + 3.9% price escalation.

[#14]

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@Batphone wrote:

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There are no brownie points for loyalty these days. It basically boils down to getting a preferential deal when you enter into contract but automatically moving to a more expensive deal once it ends. Sometimes you can "haggle", but not always.

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Just came across this when looking at the prices to switch from our present Unlimited Fibre, with evening and weekend calls, package to the Fibre package (a.k.a. SOGEA, just VDSL FTTC broadband, with no phone).

If I get a price by logging into my account with Plusnet it's £26.99/month with no free router.  If I get a price for exactly the same package as a new customer it's £24,99/month plus a free Hub Two router.

Seems that the loyalty penalty, a.k.a. let's fleece our existing customers as much as we can, is alive and well.  I've raised it with the customer support team at Plusnet, be interesting to see what they have to say.  No doubt there will be some weasel words to cover up what is really just sharp practice.

[#15]

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@JSHarris wrote: We have a standard FTTC package from Plusnet, including line rental and the evening and weekend call package.  We do make calls outside of the evening and weekend slots, so on average we incur around £7.50/month in extra charges.  Our monthly Plusnet costs are £35.73, plus call charges of around £7.50, so roughly £43 per month in total for broadband and phone.

Similar situation to me. I've got Unlimited Fibre Extra FTTC at £28.59 (£54.39 after contract ends!) plus Unlimited UK & Mobile at £11.76 for a grand monthly total of £40.35.

I already have a VoIP capable phone system (Siemens Gigaset) and everyone in the house has a mobile with unlimited calls and texts. The only reason I need the landline is so people can call the house, rather than a specific person, and to maintain a contact point for anyone getting back in touch from my pre-mobile days.

So my plan is switch to SoGEA for £25.99 a month, port the landline number to A&A for £1.44 a month (plus a one-off £40 porting-in fee I think?) and then set the call-routing options in the Gigaset so the VoIP line becomes incoming only, and we'll all use the inclusive minutes on our mobiles for outgoing calls. Should save £13 or so a month, but more importantly decouples and gives me control of the phone number in the future.

My switch-over to SoGEA is apparently going to be on Wednesday, so we'll soon see how well this works in practice.