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Why so many dead lines? (common denominator?)

Rustyme
Dabbler
Posts: 23
Registered: ‎14-12-2010

Why so many dead lines? (common denominator?)

I originally came here to complain my issue hadn't been looked at (resolved as of today) but was surprised that so many others seem to have had a similar issue - namely their landline going dead.
I thought this must be an isolated random issue but obviously not.
So what are BT doing that is causing many of its landline users to have no phone service?
There are no listed repairs etc and it seems it  has affected various exchanges so what is the common denominator in this?
It is not affecting everyone at a particular exchange yet it is too common and sudden to be random.
Perhaps it is some new spy technology though of course most of that was installed with fibre optics under the RIPA (snoopers charter) 2000 amended 2003,2005,2006,2010.
Then again with a new bill being passed and bodies able to force ISP's to fit equipment to enable surveillance one wonders if the two are connected?
So for those who have lost your line what do you think is the common denominator?
Are you per chance a political activist? (As I)
What area are you in (I am in Manchester)
What other work could BT be carrying out that they have not declared and why would they not declare it?
Do you know of anyone else who is with another ISP that has suffered the same issues?
To Plusnet.
Are there any new regulations you are required to follow associated with the snoopers charter?
How much of my meta data is farmed out and to whom?
How many requests do you get to provide data on your clients and what was this number 10 years ago?
No sock puppets, no trolls, just relevant and pertinent information please.
12 REPLIES 12
Townman
Superuser
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Registered: ‎22-08-2007

Re: Why so many dead lines? (common denominator?)

Quote from: Rustyme
What area are you in (I am in Manchester)

Hi Rustyme,
Well that explains everything - it is always raining in Manchester!  Used to work and live there, I'm now in North Cheshire.
To be serious, there has been a spate of very heavy rainfall after a protracted dry spell.  This plays havoc with poor line joints, to the point where they simply stop working.  BTOR might well be investing £Ms in rolling out fibre, but they are investing very little in the dilapidated d-side network - that's the wires from the green box to your premises.  Some of it is decades old and made of aluminium rather than copper (cost savings in 60's & 70's) and that degrades worse than copper.
Hopefully given that you are in Manchester, there are more BTOR engineers to be called upon to help you, hopefully you'll soon be sorted, as I see Adam has picked up your problem yesterday and that the engineer is due sometime today... which is fast expiring!
Kevin

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

Anotherone
Champion
Posts: 19,107
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Why so many dead lines? (common denominator?)

More likely to do with the severe weather as well as Manchester rain Wink  one previous report showing the areas affected http://usertools.plus.net/status/archive/1406814799.htm
Rustyme
Dabbler
Posts: 23
Registered: ‎14-12-2010

Re: Why so many dead lines? (common denominator?)

I don't think it is a severe weather issue. My area is not listed and we have had no really severe weather, certainly we have had much, much worse and I had no problems.
I am also on fibre optic and close to my exchange - if it was a problem with local copper cabling nobody else on my street experienced it and that would not explain why so many people from different areas seem to be suffering outages of their phone lines.
That is why I believe this is a symptom of some other undeclared work that has been done recently and I am curious to know what that work may be.
It may well be completely innocuous and totally unrelated to surveillance or meta data gathering but I am still curious as to whether Plusnet will give an answer as to how much of our data (and how often) is requested by 3rd parties and also how often it is farmed out.
I know that in the US a federal judge recently ruled that the government does not have to turn over the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court’s orders, or the names of phone companies helping it collect communications data. Therefore the NSA can continue to get access to the data in secret.
Our government is also actively following the tyrannical guilty until proven innocent philosophy and doing all it can secure and normalise mass surveillance so I may not like the answer - It may be an FOI request is the only way to get at it though.
Thank you for the sensible responses and suggestions as to why people may be suffering line outages.
A quick Google search revealed an interesting article even though it is somewhat dated and certainly unrelated to the issues at hand.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8355504.stm
Anotherone
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Re: Why so many dead lines? (common denominator?)

Here's the original announcement http://usertools.plus.net/status/archive/1406132089.htm where it says
Quote
"Much of the UK was hit with severe storm conditions (lightning and flooding) between Thursday 17 July 2014 and Sunday 20 July 2014. The storm caused extensive lightning and flooding damage across the UK, and has resulted to particularly serious impact to OpenreachÂ’s infrastructure in 13 areas. Damage has been caused both above and below ground including cable/drop wire damage, split poles and burnt out joints.
Openreach is now declaring MBORC for repair activities, in the areas detailed below, with effect from 23:59 21 July 2014.

Here's the last one http://usertools.plus.net/status/archive/1407154241.htm that North Manchester was on. BT's North Manchester may be a bit bigger than what you regard as the geographic area. You did say you lived in Manchester  Cheesy
Love the conspiracy theories, I doubt they'll tell Plusnet anything anyway so Plusnet wouldn't be able to comment.
Townman
Superuser
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Re: Why so many dead lines? (common denominator?)

Quote from: Rustyme
I am also on fibre optic and close to my exchange - if it was a problem with local copper cabling nobody else on my street experienced it and that would not explain why so many people from different areas seem to be suffering outages of their phone lines.

You might well be on fibre for your broadband, but the voice service is still delivered over copper end to end.  It is therefore feasible that you can still have fully functional FTTC (without loss of speed) whilst having a totally defunct phone.  In such a circumstance the phone issue would be in the e-side pair, rather than the local copper / aluminium d-side pair.
It is even possible to have ADSL still working (although severely degraded) whilst the phone is not working.

Superusers are not staff, but they do have a direct line of communication into the business in order to raise issues, concerns and feedback from the community.

caravanj
Aspiring Pro
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Registered: ‎31-07-2014

Re: Why so many dead lines? (common denominator?)

As a now-retired Goverment investigator I can say it's unlikely that we'd disconnect any of your telephone services but, dependent on your level & area of political activity, highly likely that we'd tap them.
Anotherone
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Registered: ‎31-08-2007

Re: Why so many dead lines? (common denominator?)

And of course you'd certainly make sure the line wasn't dead otherwise you'd not be able to glean any intelligence from the tap  Grin Grin
Rustyme
Dabbler
Posts: 23
Registered: ‎14-12-2010

Re: Why so many dead lines? (common denominator?)

Quote from: Townman
Quote from: Rustyme
I am also on fibre optic and close to my exchange - if it was a problem with local copper cabling nobody else on my street experienced it and that would not explain why so many people from different areas seem to be suffering outages of their phone lines.

You might well be on fibre for your broadband, but the voice service is still delivered over copper end to end.  It is therefore feasible that you can still have fully functional FTTC (without loss of speed) whilst having a totally defunct phone.  In such a circumstance the phone issue would be in the e-side pair, rather than the local copper / aluminium d-side pair.
It is even possible to have ADSL still working (although severely degraded) whilst the phone is not working.

My broadband stayed active and unaffected.
I am in South Manchester and we were unaffected by storms and no work was listed for my exchange.
Rustyme
Dabbler
Posts: 23
Registered: ‎14-12-2010

Re: Why so many dead lines? (common denominator?)

Quote from: Anotherone
And of course you'd certainly make sure the line wasn't dead otherwise you'd not be able to glean any intelligence from the tap  Grin Grin

Well it is a fact that  BT were instructed to install the technology so that GCHQ could easily tap into your communications and the new bill simply reinforces the original snooping laws where we are ll guilty until proven innocent and potential terrorists.
Of course I am not saying my phone was deliberately disconnected but the fact that is was does not negate the possibility of it being an unforeseen symptom of new hardware being surreptitiously installed.
I am not saying that is the reality but I am curious why there should be a spate of these disconnects and what the common denominator might be - that has not been answered yet IMO as I don't believe a little weather explains it at all.
Also you won't see Plusnet responding to my request for information on what data and how often is supplied to third parties for very good reason.
I will admit that I am somewhat using this as a vehicle to also raise awareness of your ISP and phone provider are being forced to spy on you and give up that information upon request from certain government bodies.
You may also be aware that your GP has been ordered to do much the same thing and if you do not make it your business to opt out of such nefarious policy as the data care act then it the new tyranny of assumed consent kicks in and all your health records are made available to third parties.
Oldjim
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Re: Why so many dead lines? (common denominator?)

With respect to phone calls
These do not go anywhere near the Plusnet systems so the answer is that they don't collect anything other than the number you called and the duration as reported to them by BT Wholesale
Anotherone
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Re: Why so many dead lines? (common denominator?)

There was no way your phone was deliberately disconnected. If they want to tap your line or mine there's no way either of us would be aware of it (and it would likely be done centrally in the BTw network - they don't cut the wires and re-route them if that's what you think - that went out with the ark).
Your fault was on the considerably longer line between the Cab and the Exchange, the 'E' side as mentioned by Townman or at the Cab maybe if an engineer inadvertently disturbed the jumpering for your line or at the Exchange itself.
I have already explained why there was a spate of "disconnects" in reply #4 and you will find that the effect of that damage affected customers of mutliple CPs in the relevant parts of the country.
Quote from: Rustyme
Also you won't see Plusnet responding to my request for information on what data and how often is supplied to third parties for very good reason.

You won't on here, that's for sure.  This board is for problems with the Home Phone service. Try putting in an FOI request or get the media to do it, have a chat with the Daily Mail.
Quote from: Rustyme
I will admit that I am somewhat using this as a vehicle ................

So you are now office topic. We are well aware of the things that you've mentioned, there have been plenty of threads on the Chit-Chat board (one of the places for this) and a few good ones on the Feedback boards. Go and search there, you might be amazed at what's been discussed.
Gus
Rising Star
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Registered: ‎31-07-2007

Re: Why so many dead lines? (common denominator?)

One reason a influx of New green engineers.  Every time I have had BT out for the last year and a bit, every visit has a trainer with a trainee.  So new engineers off the leash could be the reason.
Unvalued customer since 2001 funding cheap internet for others / DSL/Fibre house move 24 month regrade from 8th May 2017