Should I be getting charged for unanswered calls to mobiles?

[#1]

Quote from: DomS

Indeed - as long as we keep the momentum going then we should eventually get an answer from PN - they seem to need a bit of a nudge now and again. It would be interesting to see if it is a particular carrier who flags the call as connected even when it isn't.

Sorry if you thought any investigation was ongoing, it was a slightly different issue but I had closed this off as per the thread linked:

Quote from: Ben

BTOR have confirmed that an un-answered forwarded call is not chargeable.

As stated by 57:32:33, the network of the recipient (aka the TNO - terminating network operator) has told BTOR (the ONO - originating network operator) that the call connected and hence is billed as such. If we could prove that this is not the case then I'd be very interested to investigate - there might be a reasonable number of customers affected but I currently have no way to identify them.

[#2]

Quote from: Ben

BTOR have confirmed that an un-answered forwarded call is not chargeable.

That's interesting! (sorry I missed your response Ben - it was added as an edit to an earlier post). It only happened to me once so on it's own it has no real significance.
I have been told that the person I called did not answer his phone and neither did his phone show a missed call
That implies:
EITHER
BTOR or my contact are telling porkies
OR
BT forwarded my call to a wrong number.
The juries out! 

[#3]

If it's a call to a mobile then the TNO is the mobile network operator - they're the one telling BTOR that the call connected; BTOR tell BTW who tell us.

[#4]

I am interested how it works when you call someone who has just lost signal - for example, you ring someone who has just gone into a tunnel on a train. Although the call might not be answered, it does seem to connect (or there can be a long period of silence then a disconnected tone).

[#5]

Quote from: Ben

As stated by 57:32:33, the network of the recipient (aka the TNO - terminating network operator) has told BTOR (the ONO - originating network operator) that the call connected and hence is billed as such. If we could prove that this is not the case then I'd be very interested to investigate - there might be a reasonable number of customers affected but I currently have no way to identify them.

Hi Ben. I'm not sure HOW one would prove it, but I know for certain I have over a dozen charged calls on my phone bill that were NOT answered and did not make connection by any possible means. It's maybe somewhere to start in looking into this business - don't you think? 

[#6]

@mizzletopff
Not much that I can do, other than provide you with some raw call details to chase the mobile operator - would this help?

[#7]

Have to say Ben that that is a ridiculous response!
PN provide the OP with a phone service and bill them for it.  The OP is querying a bill with PN
How can it be the OP's responsibility to chase the TNO, with whom he has no relationship?  It's your phone service and your bill!

[#8]

@pwatson
We also have no relationship with the TNO and I have neither evidence nor statement (other than posts on a forum which are hardly admissible) to be able to pursue a complaint. In addition, contractual restrictions (which I can't go into) mean that it would be extremely hard for me to progress this issue internally. I'm offering mizzletopff  the quickest way that I can see to resolve the issue and will offer any other help that will progress it.

[#9]

So is this restricted to one certain telco or is it spread across a couple / few ?
Is it only on certain numbers or all numbers within the same telco ?

[#10]

Ben, what would constitute proof here? I'm prepared to make a more "official" statement if it helps. And, probably more importantly, I believe my friend - i.e. the mobile phone owner - would also willingly attest to the fact that these calls were never connected. Would that enable you to investigate further? I mean, presumably there's evidence available on their (Orange) side - a detailed log of calls to that number they'd have to let Plusnet see if the matter was queried? Btw, the package attached to the mobile in question is a prepaid monthly job inclusive of all outgoing calls. It's probably not that relevant but I thought I'd mention it
Cheers M 

[#11]

I'd see this more as a complaint from the recipient that his mobile service provider (Orange you mentioned) are charging callers but not putting the calls through to him.
PN's role in this is to provide a means to call phone numbers, which they seem to be doing.
Unless you're suggesting that it's PN systems that are disconnecting calls once they've connected enough to trigger a billing request from the mobile operator. Just about possible I guess.  

[#12]

I am with Giffgaff and they charge me for all mobile calls unanswered. I know they are not answered, as I am calling my own mobile when i cannot find it, one month i was charged over £1 which was so annoying as it rang once!
if this is the mobile network and not plusnet, i dont see what we can do really. It really doesn't seem fair

[#13]

GiffGaff use the O2 network, so that's presumably where the non-ringing calls are being identified as chargeable.
Orange is completely separate, unless they've finally started transmitter-sharing.

[#14]

Quote from: mizzletopff

Ben, what would constitute proof here?

I genuinely don't know, I've never pursued a complaint along these lines due to previously mentioned contractual restrictions. If you can give me the dates & times of the calls then I can certainly push to BTOR and see what happens.

[#15]

@ mizzletopff, I'd say that a witnessed test call (or two) should constitute all the proof required - If your friend is with you when you call their number, you'll hear the phone ring and witness that it isn't answered - perhaps video the whole thing and record the date and time then check whether the 'non-call' gets charged.
Although not of Plusnet's making it's them who charge you so you do need to get Plusnet to pursue this (via their supplier) for you, presumably BT wholesale can then pursue it with the mobile network operator.  I'd suggest that your friend also takes it up with their mobile operator once you have the necessary evidence.