Landline calls between Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland

[#1]

Are we presupposing that Plusnet's billing system is capable of applying different rates to customers in different locales? 

[#2]

Not pre-supposing at all, in fact I suspect that's precisely the reason...
http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,129108.msg1125049.html#msg1125049

[#3]

Morning all, long time no chat. NI > Eire are charged at geographic rate by PN because of BTW's charging rules which are (almost always) used as the gospel for PN applying a rate. The PN systems are sophisticated enough to differentiate these calls but they're not segregated into an alternate chargeband - at least they weren't when I left a month ago
Out of interest, times when these aren't used as gospel are:
ff31 - segregating Police 101
Various fm bands - segregating non-mobile number ranges e.g. 07744 & 07755
fw7 - Lycamobile - applying free minutes & mobile pricing

[#4]

Thanks Ben, I'll take a look into it as some of the calls I looked at from Northern Ireland to Ireland were showing as International calls to Ireland, but I didn't look for calls that were classed as geographic (but they may be harder to find). I'll see what I can find out.

[#5]

OK, thanks to Ben to pointing me in the right direction I've rechecked the data and this is what it looks like.
If you're in Northern Ireland and call a Republic of Ireland Landline then the call is classified as a National Geographic call, which means that if the call is made at a time you have included calls it gets counted as an inclusive call. If it's outside that time then it's charged at the national geographic call rate, i.e same as is calling 01, 02 or 03.
So for example, if you are on a Weekends call plan and make a 20 minute call the call would be free if you made it on a Saturday but charged on a Tuesday.
If you call a Republic of Ireland mobile number then this is classified as an International Mobile call to Ireland (Republic of) and is charged at the International Mobile to Ireland rate.
So for example, if you are on a Weekends call plan and make a 20 minute call the call would be charged at any time.
Edit: corrected last line.

[#6]

Thank you very much Dave and Ben for finally clearing it up 

[#7]

Glad we managed to finally clear that up

[#8]

Hi Dave, that seems very helpful, thank you. But whilst Linn reckons this matter is cleared up, I have to disagree and can clearly show why.
PN have officially confirmed to me (as a potential NI home phone customer) that the ANYTIME plan (24/7 inclusive UK landline calls) will NOT include 'free' (included in plan minutes) for landline calls between my home address in Northern Ireland to landline destinations in RoI....and that I would have to buy the INTERNATIONAL 300 add-on. This (mis)information is clearly contradictory and still requires to be rectified.
From Plusnet Sales & COT Analyst dated 10th July 2014:
"In regards to your enquiry about calls between Northern and Republic of Ireland:
the Anytime call plan does not cover this as Republic of Ireland is considered an International destination.
- However you can change the "£5 Anytime call plan" to the "£7 Anytime International 300 call plan"
This will then give you 300 International minutes each month which does include calls to the Republic of Ireland (maximum of 30 minutes per call).
I hope this gives you all of the information you need but don't hesitate to let me know if you need to know anything else in the meantime."
Might you concur?

[#9]

Also, Linn's 'Product Specialist' (post #19), after investigating actual data, also contradicts Dave's findings.
Linn, might you wish to revert back to the same specialist and re-clarify in view of Dave's insight?
Naturally it would also be useful to have Dave's information disseminated with the PN Sales team so as they are placed in an informed position and not providing misleading information to potential customers. Please can you advise if these requests will happen?
Thanks

[#10]

Conveniently, I'm now not staff so I can extol my personal opinion on these forums.
@summerside
Firstly, the position has been clarified, there is no need for people to go back and re-clarify. Staff have other customers with 'live' issues that need help.
Secondly, you cannot expect every member of staff, Sales or otherwise, to know every nuance of every product that they sell, support, retain, etc.. If every piece of new information which came to light through these forums or elsewhere was trained out to staff, those staff would either soon forget more important things or spend so much time in training they could never contact customers. However, I think it fair to request that this information is made readily accessible through the product information web pages.
Please, have reasonable expectations. Everyone does not get everything right first time - this will never happen. Point out errors when they occur and hold people to account when proved incorrect but place sensible boundaries on your demands and we'll all get along nicely

[#11]

Hi Ben T,
Many thanks for your input. I do hear you and I totally agree that not every nuance can be trained out.
However this is a fundamental issue, affecting the entire NI community. As mentioned in an earlier reply, the Northern Ireland Assembly (Government) made a huge song and dance over this very topic many years ago and campaigned relentlessly....and ultimately succeeded.
That said, I agree that if the 'information is made readily accessible through the product information web pages' ...that would be a start.
I also think OFCOM would hold an interesting opinion on this specific topic also.
Plus....do you not believe that it is the interests of PN to correct their misleading Sales information in an effort to obtain new custom and not scare them away? Maybe as an ex-employee (not having a PN home phone facility in NI) you couldn't care less 😉 but as a business owner myself, I know what I would so.

[#12]

Thanks Ben
@summerside - If you look at Reply #33 Dave was the one I went to to see if he could pull out the call data in the first place and informed me that the calls he'd looked at were charged as International calls but he states in his post that he didn't have a look at calls classed as geographic calls. He then managed to find the correct data which he has outlined in Reply #34.
I'll certainly pass the information on across the rest of the business though in case there are others who are as confused as I was to begin with!

[#13]

I informed Sales.
Got this reply. They refuse to budge!
"Although we are a part of the BT Group we do operate as an independent company and decide our own policies and procedures.
In line with our policies we do treat the Republic of Ireland as an International destination so the International rate is applied, even from Northern Ireland.
However, with the Anytime call plan (£5) that we offer, there is the option to upgrade it to the Anytime International 300 for a total cost of £7 (rather than £5) which would then include 300 minutes a month to the top 35 International countries including the Republic of Ireland (maximum of 30 minutes per call).
I hope this is an option you consider to be worthwhile as I feel we would certainly be able to save you money for providing both broadband and telephone services together."

[#14]

@summerside
As this is the first time this has been queried on the forums, I don't think it should be given higher priority then other rating nuances that have been raised / discovered / queried here and elsewhere.
Regarding whether or not I believe it to be in Plusnet's interests - of course I do - as a customer, knowing how much services cost is fundamental to my choice of provider and ensuring my CP knows some nuances is likely to provoke discussion and further understanding / knowledge sharing of other issues, such as the other rates I mentioned in an earlier post.

[#15]

Hi Ben T, thanks again for your input on this. We are both on a level, simply customers. Whilst your opinion, like others, is welcome, it is for neither of us, as mere customers, to determine how PN resolve this matter. As I mentioned, OFCOM will be the most interested party (not to mention NI Politicians). Should Linn wish to update this post once she has been able to disseminate the information across the PN business, to understand how PN themselves decide to contend with it, that would have to be welcomed.