Call charges to 118118

[#1]

I'm just repeating what Products have told me - I only make sure the rules specified by other areas of the business are implemented correctly, unfortunately I have limited involvement in creating the rules themselves.

[#2]

If you'd be so kind as to ask them to answer my simple question then please?

[#3]

It's gone a bit quiet since my last post requesting a response from your Products team Ben (I do understand that you've been particularly busy with the new Home Phone tariff launch so I'll try to be patient).
I've calmed down a bit over this now (even the Mrs has managed to avoid getting a black eye for making these calls) but I still feel that the charges are excessive and, most surprisingly, they remain unpublished and invisible to the paying customer on the brand new tariff page (perhaps that should read 'unsurprisingly' given the massive discrepancy in your charges compared to the published rates that are available on the internet for the same calls - which a customer, in the complete absence of information to the contrary, could reasonably assume would be indicative of the expected cost of using this service via Plusnet).

[#4]

To summarise the situation
Cost for first minute from published information and Plusnet billed price
BTw  273p
BT retail 258p
TalkTalk 234p
Sky  306p
Plusnet  479p
Typical price quoted by 118118 is 258p
Cost for subsequent minutes from published information and Plusnet billed price
BTw 180.2p
BT retail 179p
TalkTalk  180p
Sky  196p
Plusnet 196p
Typical price quoted by 118118 is 179p
And the only company which doesn't publish the prices is - GUESS WHO - Plusnet

[#5]

Although it doesn't help my case I have to point out what I think is an error there Jim, I've been doing more research and found this: http://sales.talktalk.co.uk/pricing/info/pricing-notification

Quote

From 1st of February, calls to 118118 and 118511 will cost £4.79 for a 1 minute call. Calls over one minute will incur an additional £1.96 for every minute.

At least they had the balls decency to advise their customers.  Plusnet can now 'justify' their charges because they're no higher than one major competitor (funny how they've managed to exactly match the most expensive one though).
What do 118.com have to say about this?

Quote

Calls to 118 118 cost 79p per call plus £1.79 per minute, (minimum 60 second charge) from most landlines. This is how BT charges for landlines, but there may be differences in how other networks charge. If you are using a mobile phone to call 118 118, you will find that the charges will be different, and often cost more. This is because each mobile operator (and some smaller landline operators) apply an additional handling charge to some elements of the call which will change what you pay. 118 118 does not control how and when these surcharges are applied, nor do we profit from them.

(My bolds)

[#6]

Unfortunately, call charges to most 118 services, whichever CP (communications provider) are IMHO excessive but the wholesale charges are as I understand it are determined by the directory service provider, it's a profit making business. The retail price to the EU (end user) where not regulated, is determined by the CP and they can charge what they like as long as they publish their charges.
I still feel, as it appears you do, that as Plusnet did not advertise a price increase (I wonder what others have changed!), there is a justified grievance.
I found Ben's reply to me in reply #26 rather arrogant and especially in light of reply #30,  Products need to get their act together.
This is not the first time that changes have occurred in charges without ensuring the correct changes were made on the relevant web pages notifying customer of the new/correct prices.
Plusnet were clearly aware that the charge band was changing and should have ensured that the Price Guide Call Tariffs page was updated at the same time and tell customers of the change. To fail to do that is not only bad planning, but shows a major flaw in their procedures with the ultimate failure resting with QA.
As this type of problem has occurred more than once before and Plusnet have been made well aware of this, I don't think the expression incompetent is too strong a word.
With regard to 118118's own advertising, have you complained to them? If not, do so, and if they don't sound too interested then complain to the ASA.

[#7]

Quote from: Anotherone

they can charge what they like as long as they publish their charges.

Quote

I still feel, as it appears you do, that as Plusnet did not advertise a price increase (I wonder what others have changed!), there is a justified grievance.

Not only did they not advertise a price increase, they have never advertised (or made available to customers) call charges for dq143 at all.

Quote

Plusnet were clearly aware that the charge band was changing and should have ensured that the Price Guide was updated at the same time and tell customers of the change.

Especially as they have just issued a new, updated, Home Phone tariff page.
Another quote from 118.com:

Quote

118 118 is contacted by more people that any other number in Britain.

Even if that statement is exaggerated it seems quite unreasonable for a CP to fail to publish their charges for using this number.
I know that different suppliers can have different prices for the same product but if Tesco charge £1.35 for a loaf of Kingsmill Soft White you would be a bit surprised if a smaller supermarket chain charged £2.50 for the same loaf, you'd just go without your morning toast wouldn't you, if the store in question did not put the price on the shelf and you only found out you'd been charged so much after your basket of shopping had gone through the till you'd probably have a bit of a moan.  This is exactly the difference in apparent mark-up that PN are charging for 118118 compared to BT.

[#8]

Quote from: w23

Quote from: Anotherone Plusnet were clearly aware that the charge band was changing and should have ensured that the Price Guide Call Tariffs page was updated at the same time and tell customers of the change. Especially as they have just issued a new, updated, Home Phone tariff page.

Yes, and I meant the Call Tariffs page rather than the Price Guide in my previous post which I'll edit.
So that is not just incompetent, but gross incompetence.
Oh, and just to be clear before someone accuses me of making a personal attack, that and the previous remark is not aimed at Ben or any individual, it's aimed at Plusnet as an organisation.

[#9]

Similarly, I have no gripe with Ben or any other member of Plusnet staff (who do a splendid job on the whole) but when I saw my phone bill I felt as though I'd just been mugged!

[#10]

Quote from: w23

Although it doesn't help my case I have to point out what I think is an error there Jim, I've been doing more research and found this: http://sales.talktalk.co.uk/pricing/info/pricing-notification Quote From 1st of February, calls to 118118 and 118511 will cost £4.79 for a 1 minute call. Calls over one minute will incur an additional £1.96 for every minute. At least they had the balls decency to advise their customers.  Plusnet can now 'justify' their charges because they're no higher than one major competitor (funny how they've managed to exactly match the most expensive one though).

Actually that is contradicted here http://sales.talktalk.co.uk/pricing/calls/uk-non-geographic where the numbers I gave came from

Quote

Directory Enquiries DQ143* 283p 196p 196p 196p * Calls under 60 seconds incur only call connection charge. Calls over 60 seconds incur call connection charge and per minute charge.

These are the screen caps

[#11]

Thanks again Oldjim!
Looks to me like the whole 118 thing could be a right mess but any TT customer charged at the 'Plus-rate' would have pretty clear grounds for reimbursement!

[#12]

I've asked internally for someone to review these costs again. I'll let you know if anything changes.

[#13]

Thank you Chris.

[#14]

I've just done a bit more digging and the wholesale cost of these calls (the price we're charged) is very very high too, so looking at some of the other companies out there they aren't making any profit from these calls at all from what I can tell. The question is still with the team here to review, just wanted to let you know what I've found so far.

[#15]

Thanks Chris,  could you (or whoever is doing the actual checking) please look specifically to make sure you're not taking a set-up charge that already includes the first 60 seconds of call time and adding another 60 seconds worth of call time in calculating the cost of a one minute call (as you would have to do with fixed fee + time based calls where the first 60 seconds is not already included in the set-up charge).