£60.00 callout charge

[#1]

Hi i am disgusted with plusnet after being with you over over 2 years bill payed on time no other issues i started to get noise on my line. the day openreach came out to do service it had stopped. but he informed me it was prob a issue that will only show up when the line is wet after it had been raining. 

Was advised to keep calling them out every time it happens to get them out. so thought ok fault it intermittent so will wait till next time and call again only to be charged £60.00 on my account. well stuff that time to cancel as you have had my money for years and never asked for a thing now £60.00 for nothing not happy at all.

[#2]

Hi there. I'm sorry to hear you've been charged for an engineer visit.

I've reviewed your account and as I can't see where we advised you of a potential call-out charge should there be no fault be found, and I seem to can't find your call when you booked the appointment, I've removed the engineer charge from your account now.

If you're still experiencing noise on your line, we'd like to look into this, though we would need to arrange another engineer visit as line tests aren't finding an issue. That said by their very nature, crackling phone lines are really tough for an engineer to identify the cause of.

Assuming you've tried the troubleshooting checks here to rule out the issue to lie with your internal wiring or equipment, please let me know if you would like us to book another engineer appointment to further investigate this and if there's no fault found again but the problem exists we'd simply arrange another engineer until it is resolved.

I hope this helps.

[#3]

This seems odd - is it really a “no fault found charge” as opposed to “fault found user side of the NTE”?

If a BTOR engineer does not look hard enough (as is often the case) then there’s a real chance of not finding a fault. Seems BTOR are pulling a fast one here on all concerned - don’t look too hard - don’t find a fault - raise a nefarious charge to enhance BTOR profits and leave the retail ISP to take the flack from the end user.

Whilst PlusNET might rightly cancel the EU charge, I doubt the refund will be charged back to BTOR as it rightly ought to be.

[#4]

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@Townman wrote:
This seems odd - is it really a “no fault found charge” as opposed to “fault found user side of the NTE”?

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Of course there's a no fault found charge. If there weren't, you'd probably get DSL stats addicts demanding Openreach attend whenever they're not completely happy with their stats. Actually we get this already, if people kick up enough fuss because they're no longer getting the full 80Mb or they've just run a hundred speedtests and a couple of them were a bit slow or similar not-really-a-problem type things. But I assume this would happen more if there were no charge for a no fault found visit. Or looking at it another way without the anti-Openreach bias, who do you think should foot the bill if someone drags out Openreach when there's nothing wrong?

[#5]

There’s a difference between there being nothing actually wrong and a fault (an intermittent fault) not been found when attended. Wet joints giving rise to intermittent noisy lines are one such scenario.

Whatever if the engineer does not look hard enough then there will be more “no fault found” events. We see far too many multi-engineer visits ... until the final one does a proper job of looking. Many be if there were no no-fault-found hiding holes, BTOR might do better at fixing on first attendance.

Given all the checks ISPs are obliged to ensure have been completed before requesting an appointment there’s not much room for there being no fault. Therefore if not found it is highly likely it’s not been looked for hard enough.

I’ve had a good number of those ... engineer calls, does his test, finds no fault, packs up to go and the exchange end exit test reports a fault ... which he dismisses as been a fault with the test head. This happens multiple times ... eventually an engineer takes the exit fault report seriously - goes and checks towards the property and finds a line fault. QED previous engineers did not look hard enough and just reported NFF, potentially giving rise to profitable income.

[#6]

You seem to have defined not looking hard enough as not finding a fault, and don't seem to have considered the possibility that in some cases, there will be nothing wrong, or despite whatever checks someone was supposed to have done, the problem was something else entirely. Perhaps we just don't hear so much about all the times there was nothing wrong with Openreach's bits.

For a REIN issue, there may well be nothing wrong with Openreach's wires.

[#7]

In the case in question there is noise on the line - before the engineer visited and afterwards - the fault was not found ... which is quite different to there being no fault to find.

Given the scenario - there’s an unlocated source of intermittent noise BTOR should have checked every joint to avoid a subsequent call out ... and certainly not raised a charge. It is all very one-sided - if BTOR find the slightest whiff of being able to blame the customer there’s a charge slapped on them ... BTOR fowl-up ... tough luck ... the customer just has to live with it. Heads BTOR wins, tails the customer loses.

[#8]

If Plusnet pass on a customer's fault report to Openreach, one would assume that they (PN) are confident that a fault exists.

If Openreach subsequently say 'Fault not found' or 'Right when tested', it's PN's choice to accept or challenge, but it seems fair to me that the customer should only be charged where a fault is found on their side of the NTE.

[#9]

Within the above there’s a marked difference between not finding the fault and there being no fault to find. If enough effort is not applied, there’s a high chance that the former becomes perceived as the latter.

[#10]

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@Townman wrote:
It is all very one-sided - if BTOR find the slightest whiff of being able to blame the customer there’s a charge slapped on them ... BTOR fowl-up ... tough luck ... the customer just has to live with it. Heads BTOR wins, tails the customer loses.

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This is one area where the liberalisation of the comms industry does the end user no favours.

When BT and its forebears were the sole provider, fault reports were taken on trust; it was assumed that subscribers didn't report faults for the fun of it, and no charges were levied for FNF or RWT. Obviously an eye was kept on the odd one who was 'taking the P'.

As things are arranged now, I believe that the ISP's should adopt the same stance - the fact that they all sub-contract to BTOR being neither here nor there.

[#11]

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@198kHz wrote:

If Plusnet pass on a customer's fault report to Openreach, one would assume that they (PN) are confident that a fault exists.

How often do we see cases along the lines of Plusnet initially telling someone that their speeds are within their estimates and the line test was OK, only for the customer to just keep complaining until they get an Openreach visit? Probably such individuals would complain so much about any no fault found charge that they wouldn't end up paying it anyway.

[#12]

It's up to the ISP to consider the merits or demerits of the case.

They may lose the occasional customer, but it'll save on chargeable abortive visits.