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youtube etc etc

thisoldman
Grafter
Posts: 1,220
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Registered: 06-04-2009

youtube etc etc


sorry mod  dont know where best to put this info.
There has been a great deal of comment both here and on other internet forums, about IsP throttling and  about  youtube and bbc iplayer in particular.
Most of the time, the isp gets blamed:  So take a llok at this and other such videos on the site please

16 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 1,850
Registered: 11-08-2007

Re: youtube etc etc

how is that proof of anything but a file the contents of which he fails to understand?
scootie
Grafter
Posts: 4,799
Registered: 03-11-2007

Re: youtube etc etc

and who places the file there? youtube
its a lot easier to place limits on there server than pump out such files to browsers.
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,251
Thanks: 937
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Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: youtube etc etc

Since Content.IE5 is really only applicable to using Internet Explorer (Firefox doesn't use it) and non of that rubbish is in my copy of that file it is probably a load of tripe
It certainly doesn't come under the Help and Support Classification so moved to Chit Chat
Community Veteran
Posts: 18,545
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Registered: 12-08-2007

Re: youtube etc etc

I don't understand this and it appears that it is a load of rubbish anyway.  Maybe someone will be able to explain it to me Undecided 
Community Veteran
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Registered: 10-06-2010

Re: youtube etc etc

All the video contains is the URL to a youtube video file (as in, a link to the .flv file), found in Internet Explorer's cache index. You can see the same thing with the youtube-dl command-line program.
$ youtube-dl -g 
http://v18.lscache4.c.youtube.com/videoplayback?sparams=id%2Cexpire%2Cip%2Cipbits%2Citag%2Calgorithm%2Cburst%2Cfactor%2Coc%3AU0hPTVBUUF9FSkNOOV9ITlRF&fexp=908607%2C904510%2C907305&algorithm=throttle-factor&itag=35&ip=0.0.0.0&burst=40&sver=3&signature=756559DAD7B5509A15B5C332867E77324C15FC43.03EB15385A821E3A404B40C113BDC2D41183DBD3&expire=1308092400&key=yt1&ipbits=0&factor=1.25&id=3b712a17a2007d1a

Youtube doesn't really need to send video data out at a rate far exceeding the bitrate of the video.
thisoldman
Grafter
Posts: 1,220
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Registered: 06-04-2009

Re: youtube etc etc

try this
http://www.youtube.com/my_speed#

scroll down page click on speed test video for results.
post yours
at 7.30 am today my d/l speed was 6.2 and my youtube was 3.8
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,789
Registered: 08-06-2007

Re: youtube etc etc

That's nice.  Your point?
thisoldman
Grafter
Posts: 1,220
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Registered: 06-04-2009

Re: youtube etc etc

my point is very simple barry  im trying to find an explanation for the diiference in speeds provided by bbc and youtube. see speed reports.
the bbc categorically inform me that they do NOT throttle iplayer speeds
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,789
Registered: 08-06-2007

Re: youtube etc etc

Both Youtube and iPlayer will dynamically feed out different streams based upon your detected connection speed.  They also dynamically adjust the stream rate somewhat if they detect your connection is fluctuating.  This could easily be why Youtube only uses 3.8Mbps of bandwidth on your connection, but iPlayer uses more or less.
The BBC peer directly with Plusnet, so there are fewer "links in the chain" between their CDN and a Plusnet customer.   Youtube/Google have their own worldwide CDN on a much larger scale.
The Plusnet traffic classification system identifies Youtube traffic very consistently.  The Extra product prioritises that traffic.  If you are seeing issues with stuttering video, the problem is highly likely to be at your end, rather than some conspiracy theory that Plusnet hate you and limit your viewing of pony videos and cute cats.
B.
thisoldman
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Re: youtube etc etc

dont be so impertinent  zubel  i never mentioned any conspiracy. My connection is fine and stable so the prob is not from my end  i am simply attempting to understand the diference between line speed and the d/l spped of various sites...
aaa may have been talking about his business product but he raised the issue of d/l sppeds from iplayer and that iisue affects every product on pn.
Epyon
Grafter
Posts: 285
Registered: 31-03-2011

Re: youtube etc etc

Download 14.1
Youtube 13.9
Community Veteran
Posts: 18,545
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Registered: 12-08-2007

Re: youtube etc etc

Barry, thank you for your detailed explanation.  You've made it much clearer for me to follow. Wink
Community Veteran
Posts: 3,789
Registered: 08-06-2007

Re: youtube etc etc

Quote from: thisoldman
dont be so impertinent  zubel 

It's "Barry".  I'm not 11, and I'm not at some public school being groomed to talk with a silver spoon rammed down my throat but be generally ignorant of the day to day life of 90% of the population.  We're also not in the middle east, where the convention is that surname and given name are reversed.  I'm mildly insulted that you choose to refer to me by my surname.  Still, I'm sure my feeling of being insulted will pass.
Quote from: thisoldman
My connection is fine and stable so the prob is not from my end

These two statements are not mutually exclusive.  Your connection may be perfectly fine, but the problem may still be at your end.  Performing a speedtest may exercise a different mechanism in the TCP stack that streaming video.  One thing that comes immediately to mind is TCP Windows Scaling.  Whilst a speedtest is likely to utilise a single block size or at least an incrementally increasing block size, you will find that a streamed video can utilise a wildly variant block size which can make TCP windows scaling algorithms work much less effectively, introducing jitter and latency.  This could be further compounded by the mix of patches, hardware, device drivers, routers, cabling and your individual line conditions. 
That being said, the major problems with streaming are /generally/ attributable to easily identifiable connection problems, and/or incorrect classification of traffic, and/or specific congestion at one point in the link between the host and the destination.  Some of these are very easy to diagnose.  Some of these are practically impossible to diagnose and can only be inferred based on other circumstances or evidence.
Quote from: thisoldman
i am simply attempting to understand the diference between line speed and the d/l spped of various sites...

As I mentioned before, both Youtube and iPlayer attempt to determine a speed that your connection can easily handle.  This means that there will always be some allowance or overhead between the stream speed and your connection speed in case other traffic on your connection peaks.  Also, Youtube in particular often "front-loads" the download which means the connection will be closer to saturation during the initial buffering stage, and can tail off to the approximate stream rate once buffering has occurred.  Both of these sites use very advanced techniques to try to ensure that your video will not stutter but at the end of the day transient network conditions are simply not predictable.
Quote from: thisoldman
... but he raised the issue of d/l sppeds from iplayer and that iisue affects every product on pn.

No, it clearly doesnt.
If the issue affected "every product on PN", the forums would be swamped with people complaining about iPlayer not working, being sluggish, or otherwise not performing to specification.  Plusnet have specifically stated that their aim is to prioritise all traffic that they consider to be time-sensitive, on the relevant account types.  Streaming video is one of those types of traffic so if it is not being prioritised correctly, this is an unintentional problem and will be rectified upon identification.
B.
thisoldman
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Re: youtube etc etc

thank you barry zubel.