cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

metering disc(was: After 13 years Plusnet have finally managed to rack me off!!)

thegame2k0
Grafter
Posts: 88
Registered: 26-05-2015

metering disc(was: After 13 years Plusnet have finally managed to rack me off!!)

It's high time line rental was done away with completely, virgin media offer broadband on it's own it's about time Plusnet, bt, talktalk etc started doing the same.
It is getting beyond a joke now.

adie:green changed topic title.]
59 REPLIES
Estragon
Rising Star
Posts: 811
Thanks: 10
Registered: 07-02-2012

Re: After 13 years Plusnet have finally managed to rack me off!! 19% cost increase?

My line rental (£24.31pm with BT once you include E & W, caller display, basic 1571, but still relevant here) is moving to Pulse8broadband on Tuesday. All I lose is E & W calls which I can manage without. Eighteen outgoing calls in the last six months, some of those 0800 which are now free on my mobile.
New rental + caller display + basic 1571 £14pm. Calls have no setup fee (Plusnet 9p < 10p) and 1ppm billed by the second.
AAISP do a line only, no calls in or out, at £10pm, on which you can have VOIP if you wish, which they can provide. Whether or not you can take this product with your broadband elsewhere I don't know, but haven't seen anything stipulating that you must.
createdbydan
Grafter
Posts: 56
Registered: 25-06-2015

Re: After 13 years Plusnet have finally managed to rack me off!! 19% cost increase?

Quote from: thegame2k0
It's high time line rental was done away with completely, virgin media offer broadband on it's own it's about time Plusnet, bt, talktalk etc started doing the same.
It is getting beyond a joke now.

You have to be connected to the PSTN for any DSL service, so who do you suggest pays for the hardware and maintenance for the kit?
x47c
Grafter
Posts: 878
Registered: 14-08-2009

Re: After 13 years Plusnet have finally managed to rack me off!! 19% cost increase?

The proper way of doing this would be 3 monthly payments
1. To the infrastructure provider (BTOR) for rent of the physical line to your address, its maintenance and repair and for upgrades etc.
2. to your voice service provider (BT Retail plusnet etc) if you choose to have a voice service on the line.
3. To your data provider if you have a broadband service on the line.
The snag is that this would require BTOR as infrastructure provider to set up a whole customer billing system and customer contact point for that part of the payment so it would end up much more expensive then the system we have now.
OFCOM could of course merely require that the line rental component is instead of being lumped in with the voice service is simply lumped in with the broadband charges.
Then we would find that broadband charge soared upwards while the extra amount needed to be paid for having a voice service on the line as well would be quite small.
I suppose not many would like this either.....or possibly even less!
Unfortunately there is a further problem in that there are more phone lines than broadband activated phone lines in the UK so the present system acts as a subsidy paid by pensioners and the like with no broadband to people like us who do have broadband.  Were this cross subsidy not to exist if we lumped the rental charge in with broadband then 'line rental' would have to go up even higher.......
People are going to have to pay a "line rental/maintenance" component somewhere in the monthly subscriptions. The only question is to whom and where.  Even the full FTTP companies have such a component though it is totally hidden in the monthly charge and totally invisible to the user: so customers just get the £50/pm or whatever bill.
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,824
Registered: 27-10-2012

Re: After 13 years Plusnet have finally managed to rack me off!! 19% cost increase?

Quote from: thegame2k0
It's high time line rental was done away with completely, virgin media offer broadband on it's own it's about time Plusnet, bt, talktalk etc started doing the same.

Single Order Generic Ethernet Access (SOGEA) - or FTTC without the need for phone line rental, has been pushed by Openreach for some time. It is due to be trialled at the start of next year. ISPs have been generally against such a product where someone can order FTTC without the need to also take line rental.
Something people have missed (and it's not really been reported in the broadband media) is that although the wholesale pricing has not changed, the average amount of data used per user (and backhaul bandwidth required) has jumped over the past couple of years. When you consider than non-LLU ISPs are paying anything from £48-70 +VAT per 1mbps for backhaul bandwidth, you can see why prices will increase. The problem is that it gets passed on to the phone line rental as ISPs are ridiculously competitive over their broadband pricing.
Community Veteran
Posts: 38,246
Thanks: 934
Fixes: 56
Registered: 15-06-2007

Re: After 13 years Plusnet have finally managed to rack me off!! 19% cost increase?

should that be Gb/s not Mb/s
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,824
Registered: 27-10-2012

Re: After 13 years Plusnet have finally managed to rack me off!! 19% cost increase?

Surprisingly, not. It all works on the basis that most users are not fully saturating their connections 24x7.
The list price for contracted bandwidth for WBMC Shared (which Plusnet use) is £48.55 per Mbps per month. For 20CN Market B, it's a whopping £131.20 per Mbps per month. This doesn't include any of the host link (the bits which connect Plusnet to BT Wholesale's network) and also the peering charges. The 21CN contracted bandwidth charges haven't changed for 5 years - it's something that restricts the smaller ISPs from being more competitive on their pricing.
If someone was to use their 80Mbps FTTC connection fully maxed out 24/7 for a month, it would cost Plusnet 48.55 * 80 = £3,884 a month
Say Plusnet buy 100Gb/s of contracted bandwidth for 21CN per month, they are paying close to £5 mil a month for backhaul bandwidth. What Plusnet really pay is something we will never know...
Heavy data users (which will be a very small minority) are costing Plusnet money. It all balances out though as most users will have light to moderate usage.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 9,990
Thanks: 1,532
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: After 13 years Plusnet have finally managed to rack me off!! 19% cost increase?

AndyH,
Yet again the case is well made for charging by consumption.  We pay for most things by the quantity we consume "unlimited" broadband is ultimately driving up the price we all pay, regardless of an individual's consumption.
To add to x47c's suggestion, there needs to be a 4th charge - the amount of bandwidth consumed, similar to that for phone calls, gas, electricity, eggs and oranges.
There is far too much "wanting everything for nothing" around the internet space leading to other's having to pay more for other's higher consumption.  This cannot go on, the cost model is not sustainable.  If people are not responsible in their consumption of the internet, prices will continue to go up for all, or there will be a return to measured services.
x47c
Grafter
Posts: 878
Registered: 14-08-2009

Re: After 13 years Plusnet have finally managed to rack me off!! 19% cost increase?

I thought the mainstream ISP's had collectively lost their heads when they started pushing unlimited as the only option.
and what with the rise in high bandwidth video streaming services its only going to get worse.
The rise of the 'something for free' is no confined to internet data either.
Here is someone today  "outraged"  at the thought of actually having to pay for the amount of water they use by the cubic meter rather than being allowed to well use as much as they like for a fixed charge and sod the rest.
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5289893
jafreer
Rising Star
Posts: 823
Thanks: 45
Registered: 13-10-2012

Re: After 13 years Plusnet have finally managed to rack me off!! 19% cost increase?

To be fair, I think the bulk of that person's complaint was that a meter was fitted and they were never advised. I would be annoyed about that too. There may be a general rule saying that their property should have a meter, but if it was previously unmetered, and then metered, they really should have been notified of that, by letter directly to them.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 9,990
Thanks: 1,532
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: After 13 years Plusnet have finally managed to rack me off!! 19% cost increase?

Why?
Why do people think they have the 'god-given-right' to consume without limit for a fixed price?  Unmetered services work fine where people are respectful of others and take only a reasonable amount.  I am sure that there are many users on unmetered water supplies who believe they have the right to leave their lawn sprinklers running all day...
...sounds so similar to internet consumption.  It is barking mad and is a significant contributor to the recent price increases.
sjptd
Grafter
Posts: 467
Registered: 01-09-2014

Re: After 13 years Plusnet have finally managed to rack me off!! 19% cost increase?

I think I agree with what I read as the consensus here:
Water should be metered.
If people are moved from unmetered to metered water, they should be clearly warned in advance.
We would probably have a fairer broadband system if usage was metered and charged.
If people are moved from unmetered to metered broadband, they should be clearly warned in advance.
Community Veteran
Posts: 4,917
Thanks: 338
Fixes: 16
Registered: 10-06-2010

Re: After 13 years Plusnet have finally managed to rack me off!! 19% cost increase?

So you'd prefer everyone to go back to beancounting their usage of the Internet. We'd all have superfast broadband connections which we could marvel at how fast they are, and then not do anything with.
Comparing bandwidth usage to gas, electricity, water etc. is a very poor analogy. If you burn gas, that actually uses up gas which has to come from somewhere. The electrical power you use has to be generated by power stations, wind turbines etc. Water is mostly supplied by collecting what falls from the sky, if it doesn't rain enough, eventually the reservoirs empty.  Using bandwidth doesn't really use anything up in the same way.
If Plusnet pay for 100Gb of contracted bandwidth, does what they pay change depending on how much of it is actually used?
Usage quotas are not really going to stop everyone wanting to use their broadband all at the same peak times (mostly in the evenings), so the amount of bandwidth required to satisfy the peak demand would probably be much the same.
Superuser
Superuser
Posts: 9,990
Thanks: 1,532
Fixes: 19
Registered: 22-08-2007

Re: After 13 years Plusnet have finally managed to rack me off!! 19% cost increase?

ejs,
That is a fair point - there has to adequate "width" capacity for peak period concurrent use, however I thought that there is also a throughput charge, that is a cost for each Gbyte of data shipped through the network.
jafreer
Rising Star
Posts: 823
Thanks: 45
Registered: 13-10-2012

Re: After 13 years Plusnet have finally managed to rack me off!! 19% cost increase?

I repeat, the poster on that forum has the right to be annoyed because they were not warned that they were being converted to a metered supply. That is the issue, not whether anyone is entitled to metered or unmetered water.
It is no different than Plusnet changing your internet connection from unlimited to a 60GB usage allowance without telling you. And if you have an issue, then everyone jumps in and says "well nobody should be entitled to unlimited internet". Whether you agree or not with that statement, you should still have been informed of the change.