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Worth a read - expensive road crash

Community Veteran
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Registered: 15-06-2007

Worth a read - expensive road crash

Two things stand out - first are the low sentences
Quote
At court yesterday the 17-year-old driver, from Holbury, pleaded guilty to taking a vehicle without consent and dangerous driving, burglary and driving without a licence or insurance. She was handed a six-month detention and training order and disqualified for driving for a year when she is eligible for a licence. Magistrates sentenced the other 17-year-old girl from Bransgore to a four-month detention and training order after she pleaded guilty to burglary and aggravated vehicle taking.
A 16-year-old boy from New Milton pleaded guilty to handling stolen goods, allowing himself to be carried in a vehicle that was taken without consent, and driving without a licence or insurance. He was sentenced to a 12-month supervision order and a three-month curfew. He will be disqualified from driving for two years when he comes of age.
and the second is why were the police driving so recklessly
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The pursuing police car then crashed into the wrecked tree lying across the road, injuring the driver and female police officer. Despite their injuries the officers dashed to the wrecked Bentley, used a fire extinguisher to put out the flames and a crowbar to open the doors, and pulled the three teenagers from the wreckage.
A second police car smashed into the back of the first, and a third careered off the road.
Bournemouth Echo
27 REPLIES
Community Veteran
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Re: Worth a read - expensive road crash

The latter is because the crash of the Bentley threw out a lot of debris, which caused the first police car to brake hard to avoid getting hit, and then so on.
pierre_pierre
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Re: Worth a read - expensive road crash

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Re: Worth a read - expensive road crash

Quote from: Be3G
The latter is because the crash of the Bentley threw out a lot of debris, which caused the first police car to brake hard to avoid getting hit, and then so on.

Wrong
The reason is the standard of general police drivers is not good enough. The specialist police drivers who are trained to "class one" standard are outstanding drivers. The rest are just an accident waiting to happen.
pierre_pierre
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Re: Worth a read - expensive road crash

Quote
Wrong
The reason is the standard of general police drivers is not good enough

Wrong, look at the BBC item, it is definitely not a plods cars smashed up
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Re: Worth a read - expensive road crash

I saw the news report on that case..... The three teenagers stole a Bently from outside a house they had just burgled.... taking a laptop, some cash, and the car keys.... on reversing out of the driveway of the house, they smashed down a small wall...... this noise woke the occupant who looked out of his window, saw his car missing and the broken wall, and phoned the police..... the vehicle was fitted with a satellite tracker, and so was quickly located..... Unfortunately for the offenders, they had no experience of driving a big heavy car at speed, and subseuently smashed it into a tree. To see the wreckage, it looked like it was a crushed vehicle that had ended up upside down after falling off the back of a lorry !... How they managed to survive the crash, no one knows..... agreed the Police drivers should have been more "all about" regarding the chase, especially the following ones behind the "pursuit" car....Three Police cars and the Bently were written off in the accident.
I think the judge must have "fancied" the 17 year old girl to give her such a light sentence.... If it had been a bloke, he would probably have been banged up for a couple of years, and banned for a further four.
pierre_pierre
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Re: Worth a read - expensive road crash

that roughly whats reported here of the court case, http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolpda/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_7466000/7466125.stm
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Re: Worth a read - expensive road crash

Quote from: pierre_pierre
Wrong, look at the BBC item, it is definitely not a plods cars smashed up

Of course they were police cars. That is, cars driven by police officers.
Quote from: shutter
Three Police cars and the Bently were written off in the accident.

Quote
The number of pedestrians and drivers seriously injured by police vehicles in 2007 was 142 - up from just 85 in 2006,
Officers were involved in an average of 50 accidents a day over the same period, injuring a shocking total of 4,511 people.

Quoted from Mirror UK
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Police appealed for calm yesterday as angry protests followed the death of Hayley Adamson, 16. She was crossing a main road in Newcastle upon Tyne with six friends when she was hit by the marked police car at 11.20pm on Monday.
Witnesses have made unconfirmed claims that it was one of two Northumbria Police cars that appeared to be racing each other immediately before the fatal accident. The driver, who was alone in the car that struck Hayley, is believed to have been looking for a stolen vehicle.

Quoted from Times Online
There is a fundamental problem with police driving and operational tactical priorities in this country. The average police officer is not adequately trained for pursuit or high speed driving.
The safety of the general public is apparently not high on the agenda .
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Re: Worth a read - expensive road crash


@santiago
Quote from: pierre_pierre on Today at 20:40
Wrong, look at the BBC item, it is definitely not a plods cars smashed up
Quote

Of course they were police cars. That is, cars driven by police officers.


the pictures on both linkys show the Bentley. which obviously is not a "police" car in any form, there is a second picture below on the BBC item, which clearly shows the blue and yellow chequers of a Police vehicle. this was only one of the three which were all similarly damaged.
pierre_pierre
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Re: Worth a read - expensive road crash

And not only is it a police car, it is a pursuit BMW police car (I think) the driver of which is a specialist driver, the pursuit was in excess of 100 MPH, please read the article
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Re: Worth a read - expensive road crash

*wades in*
@Santiago
The Police BMW you will have seen in the picture is indeed a fast response car, in which only Highly trained officers can drive - There are several driving tickets according to different levels of driving. (They would have had a Standard plus ticket or even advanced)
Basic
Standard
Standard Plus
Advanced
Basic is just run of the mill
Standard will be taken by those doing a Fast response course, which allows them to respond on Blue Lights and Sirens  but NOT Persue, and they will have *some* Motorway training in order to be able to assist the Roads Policing Unit (or Traffic as we all know it) in certain things.
Standard plus is as above, but with the authority to carry out "non compliant" stops and to persue.
The advanced ticket is a 5 week residential course, which covers TPAC and lots of other stuff I  can't put on here.
All response cars are fitted with vehicle data recorders which show exactly what was going on at the time they hit the buttons for blues and twos. Even if they are not on B&T, if they exceed a certain speed limit, the data recorder kicks in and the location of the car is automatically sent via GPS and it is investigated by senior management, if someone is caught doing something they shouldn't, then certainly in the case of Hampshire, they are pulled up for it and usually have their driving authority suspended.
[Quote="Santiago"]Quoted from Mirror UK
That says it all really, that paper barely gets its facts right..
Quote
There is a fundamental problem with police driving and operational tactical priorities in this country. The average police officer is not adequately trained for pursuit or high speed driving.
The safety of the general public is apparently not high on the agenda.

Different forces have different driving Policies but still follow ACPO guidelines
What has to be remembered is that people make mistakes, but sadly it is those who are not aware of what is going on around them that end up getting hurt.
I have seen footage before where quite clearly it's seen that a pedestrian walking out in front of the police vehicle was looking the other way at a crossing and did not hear the two tones despite them being activated and this fact corroborated by the vehicle data recorder, the police officer was in a authorised pursit so was exceeding the speed limit at the time.
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Re: Worth a read - expensive road crash

Going back to my original post - assuming that this report is correct
Quote
The pursuing police car then crashed into the wrecked tree lying across the road, injuring the driver and female police officer. Despite their injuries the officers dashed to the wrecked Bentley, used a fire extinguisher to put out the flames and a crowbar to open the doors, and pulled the three teenagers from the wreckage.
A second police car smashed into the back of the first, and a third careered off the road.
I have no complaint about the first police car hitting the tree but it would appear that the driver and passenger managed to get out (and start to put out the flames - at least to get clear of their car) before the second police car hit it and the third one careered off the road. So why were the succeeding cars driving in such a manner when they were a significant distance behind the actual pursuing car.
Community Veteran
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Re: Worth a read - expensive road crash

Bear in mind the time of night at which it happened and the fact there was debris on the road, this would have presented a unavoidable hazard on the road, remebering the speeds involved.
The other two response cars probably won't have been that far behind cause in reality, the first car would have grabbed their extinguisher within 20 seconds of arriving, the other cars were probably 30 seconds behind that, and if  the lines of communication were temporarily obfuscated then there wouldn't have been a chance to give a warning about the debris on the road.. anyway, I don't know the full facts, I wasn't there, and I don't think it's fair for any of us to speculate. All I can tell you is that all the drivers will have been pursuit trained.. heck, the number of times training cars are written off because they end up in a smash on a road you wouldn't even bear to think about, but nobody remembers that, do they? Wink
Only the Police will know what happened, or are still trying to establish the facts from the data recorders at this moment in time. No doubt the information will become available under FOI in due course
pierre_pierre
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Re: Worth a read - expensive road crash

good on you Roger, I took a few years go a "drive and survive" driving course with a Police grade 1 instructor, learnt a lot then, it included high speed on a track, skid training on a dolly car, and a lot of cross country work - the rules still apply with my driving (I hope)
I also had a chance as part of my work to drive said police cars off road in excess of 150, I like you think I know what I am talking about.
never the less, a close relation of mine is a police man and had to drive the local beat cars, put one in the ditch in his first week  - very little training and relieved of driving for one month.
Community Veteran
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Re: Worth a read - expensive road crash

I think we can all speculate - whether the speculations have any basis in fact is another matter entirely.
However given your suggested times that would put the other police cars at least a mile behind if, as suggested, they were driving well in excess of 60 mph.
Knowing the area and the reported route taken by the Bentley the odds are that they weren't part of the hot pursuit over the narrow and twisting country roads but were called in as backup as otherwise they would have been much closer. This would indicate that they were driving at very high speed on the A35 in order to catch up with the close pursuit vehicle.
All pure speculation of course and we will never know the actual facts.
One thing which does surprise me is how the teenagers managed to keep the Bentley on the road when driving at high speed along the minor roads through the New Forest.