cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

What does someone have to do to get a whole life term in this country?

Jonpe
Hero
Posts: 3,475
Thanks: 1,395
Fixes: 9
Registered: ‎05-09-2016

What does someone have to do to get a whole life term in this country?

Joseph McCann was recently given 33 life sentences.  That's only fair, but then the judge decided that he must serve a minimum of 30 years!  Yes, I know judges are guided (i.e. have their hands tied) by Home Office guidelines, but the difference between 33 life sentences and 30 years is out of all proportion.  Purely mathematically this means that someone given one life sentence could be out in eleven months or so.

Then today we hear that John Worboys has been given two life sentences with a minimum term of six years for attacking four more women.  "In 2009, Worboys was locked up indefinitely for the public protection with a minimum of eight years after being found guilty of 19 sex offences against 12 women ..." (BBC)

35 REPLIES 35
twocvbloke
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,399
Thanks: 1,781
Fixes: 3
Registered: ‎06-11-2014

Re: What does someone have to do to get a whole life term in this country?

"Life" doesn't mean "Life", whether prison sentences or products, just ends up being some misinterpreted legalese that means some limited amount of time that doesn't bear any resemblance to the word "Life"...

 

Life sentence, out in 5 years; Lifetime warranty, ends after two years; Lifetime filter, clogs after a week, etc....

7up
Community Veteran
Posts: 15,377
Thanks: 1,186
Fixes: 14
Registered: ‎01-08-2007

Re: What does someone have to do to get a whole life term in this country?

Use of the word "life" is simply used to boost public confidence. That's it, just a PR stunt.

I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
wotsup
Seasoned Champion
Posts: 1,809
Thanks: 1,341
Registered: ‎21-11-2018

Re: What does someone have to do to get a whole life term in this country?

I heard on radio this morning that after the murder of a hotel maid the police in Thailand are hunting a serial killer who was recently released from prison. In 2005 the killer was sentenced to life but released after 14 years because he managed to convince authorities he was safe to be released ... so it appears that the UK is not alone in failing to protect its citizens from dangerous people......

RobPN
Hero
Posts: 3,750
Thanks: 1,674
Fixes: 5
Registered: ‎17-05-2013

Re: What does someone have to do to get a whole life term in this country?

Some of the Great Train Robbery (1963) participants got 30 year sentences, and in those days there was no such thing as parole.

Maybe 'consecutive' sentencing should be used more instead of the usual 'concurrent'.  That way once multiple-lifers had finished the first life sentence they could look forward to starting the second, and so on.

7up
Community Veteran
Posts: 15,377
Thanks: 1,186
Fixes: 14
Registered: ‎01-08-2007

Re: What does someone have to do to get a whole life term in this country?

One murder should be a lengthy sentence in the region of 25-30 years - unless it was self defence. Two means you're definitely not safe around people and should be locked up never to see freedom again.

Letting these people out because they pretend not to be a risk anymore is pathetic. Why should innocent people lose their lives because the leaders of a country have become stupid?

I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
Minivanman
Aspiring Legend
Posts: 13,297
Thanks: 5,052
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎04-11-2014

Re: What does someone have to do to get a whole life term in this country?

That Great Train Robbery @RobPN was seen as treason against the State rather than the individual despite that driver being unnecessarily beaten, which is why the sentences were so heavy and in much the same was as crimes such as forgery or spying were. It was certainly not seen as justice by the public at the time and served only to turn the likes of Ronnie Biggs and Buster Edwards to name just two of the robbers into heroes rather than villains. 

As for those life sentences (and as one who has little if any faith in reform) the term is nonsense and misnomer. Let's not go completely daft about it like the Americans, but some crimes really should mean life and not some seemingly arbitrary get out of jail free card.

No hope of ever being released? Who cares for some of 'em - I certainly don't.


Don't limit the friends you haven't met with arguments you'll never have.
7up
Community Veteran
Posts: 15,377
Thanks: 1,186
Fixes: 14
Registered: ‎01-08-2007

Re: What does someone have to do to get a whole life term in this country?

I think it IS possible for people to become reformed characters however murderers are the exception. Once someone has gone as far as to take a life they clearly have the mentality that could switch back to doing it again no matter how placid they normally are. Same with other violent criminals such as rapists and robbers. These people can never truly be trusted IMO and I believe that it is an instinct to many of them.

But I do believe that others can be reformed - eg motorists who screwed up and killed someone... they are not going to want to take that phone call again or go driving while drunk again are they?

I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
gleneagles
Community Veteran
Posts: 10,714
Thanks: 2,224
Fixes: 16
Registered: ‎02-08-2007

Re: What does someone have to do to get a whole life term in this country?

I am all for the American system where life actually means life.

There are many reasons why people commit murder and in some cases it is clear why they did it. IE: physical abuse of a partner or perhaps being present when someone else in the group committed the act but everyone got charged, in such instances the current sentences make sense but there are groups who will always pose a danger to the public and be locked up....with the advances in forensic science it has been possible to be certain of a persons guilt and in cases of serial murderers I honestly think they should face a death sentence.

I also think the wrong type of people are on these parole boards, clear from some of the stupid decisions they have made.

We are born into history and history is born into us.
Minivanman
Aspiring Legend
Posts: 13,297
Thanks: 5,052
Fixes: 1
Registered: ‎04-11-2014

Re: What does someone have to do to get a whole life term in this country?

@7up 

Indeed not, and not sure how certain offences are categorized or how one is criminal and the other accidental but where there was intent to commit a crime the majority do re-offend and the cost to State in dealing with these cases is simply massive. We have to allow also that figures provided are only for those that are proven, with many going undetected. 

Prison for first timers is not only an excellent opportunity to learn from other offenders how better to rob, steal or whatever, but how better to get away with it. 


Don't limit the friends you haven't met with arguments you'll never have.
gleneagles
Community Veteran
Posts: 10,714
Thanks: 2,224
Fixes: 16
Registered: ‎02-08-2007

Re: What does someone have to do to get a whole life term in this country?

@Minivanman 

But the problem is the prisons.

Prisons should be places that if you ever went in one you would never want to go in one again.

How would you do that, well I have plenty of ideas but leave you to imagine what they might be.

What is clear the present system is not working, indeed it is getting worse with claims by prison officers offenders are actually running the prisons.

The priority should be to protect the innocent....not the guilty.

We are born into history and history is born into us.
Champnet
Champion
Posts: 1,676
Thanks: 537
Fixes: 7
Registered: ‎25-07-2007

Re: What does someone have to do to get a whole life term in this country?

Sometimes one’s own convictions can be questioned, as in the case of James Ford. A convicted Murderer on day release who tackled the London Bridge Terrorist, who risked his life helping to protect others

Mav
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 20,635
Thanks: 3,894
Fixes: 431
Registered: ‎06-04-2007

Re: What does someone have to do to get a whole life term in this country?

@Champnet 

But what's the odds of him being in the right place at the right time if he hadn't committed his original crime?

 

I have never understood the logic for more than one life sentence whether served concurrently or not. Unless, of course, on dying the prisoner is re-animated to live another stuck in prison till all life sentences are served!

Forum Moderator and Customer
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear - Mark Twain
He who feared he would not succeed sat still

Jonpe
Hero
Posts: 3,475
Thanks: 1,395
Fixes: 9
Registered: ‎05-09-2016

Re: What does someone have to do to get a whole life term in this country?


@Minivanman wrote:

@7up 

Prison for first timers is not only an excellent opportunity to learn from other offenders how better to rob, steal or whatever, but how better to get away with it. 


How many offences do we allow criminals to commit before they are put in prison for the first time?  We already have people with dozens of previous offences being given a slap on the hand rather than loss of liberty.

twocvbloke
Community Veteran
Posts: 6,399
Thanks: 1,781
Fixes: 3
Registered: ‎06-11-2014

Re: What does someone have to do to get a whole life term in this country?

I still think prisoners should be put to work pedalling on bicycle-generators to feed energy into the grid, it is a renewable and sustainable energy source after all, plenty criminals in the system to be putting to work... 😂