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What Is plus Net Going to do, to protect Customers From Government Spying On Us.

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Re: What Is plus Net Going to do, to protect Customers From Government Spying On Us.

Quote from: Mook
preventing crime and saving lives

Except like street cameras it will generally do little more than watch / record crimes taking place.
Only Bobbies on the beat prevented crime.
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Re: What Is plus Net Going to do, to protect Customers From Government Spying On Us.

Well it is my interpretation that the law is there to prevent such crimes, but maybe it's just a way to justify it.
I have to disagree with the comment regarding Bobbies on the beat, if someone was wanting to breaking a building all they would need to do would be to wait until the police had passed the location of choice, there would then be a finite amount of time to rob the place prior to their return. It may have deterred spur of the moment crimes but not a determined criminal.
pwatson
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Re: What Is plus Net Going to do, to protect Customers From Government Spying On Us.

Laws are generally not put in place to prevent crime, they are there to clarify where a line is drawn and behaviour is deemed to be illegal.
This legislation is flawed (in that far too much data will be generated to be useful) and panders to those who believe a nanny state to be a 'good thing'.  Just as civil liberties were eroded by block lists with the 'think of the children' justification this law erodes civil liberties even further by dressing it up to prevent terrorism - After all who would claim that terrorism is a good thing!  The problem is that this is fighting terror with terror effectively and an entirely disproportionate response to the perceived threat.
An analogy by way of explanation as to why this is so wrong...
Speeding cars cause thousands of injuries and deaths each year, far more than terrorist activity.  Would you feel that it was OK if a law was passed that made it mandatory for every car to be fitted with a tracking device and data kept regarding every journey you made, just in case you happened to injure someone?  Would you be happy if the tracking device was linked to a speed limit database and your car was prevented driving above the speed limit set for a particular area?
Probably not eh, but why is this any different to tracking internet usage (just in case) or application of block lists?
The existing laws regarding terrorism are clear - Thou shall not commit, or conspire to commit, an act to terrorism.  As with any other illegal act, it is already acceptable to authorise surveillance of those that the 'powers that be' have sufficient cause to suspect, but mass surveillance (just in case mind)  is many steps too far!
nanotm
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Re: What Is plus Net Going to do, to protect Customers From Government Spying On Us.

@pwatson,
your falling into the rabbit hole of narrow thinking,
your argument is flawed because every main road in the country has cameras on it, most towns cities and villages have cctv all over the place, the average journey made is thus traceable to prove or disprove a case, a terrorist can be tracked when they travel through the physical world either to back trace their steps after an attack or during the planning /build-up/execution phases, implementing a system that provides the exact same options in the electronic world is rather late coming to the party, further, terrorist actions are increasingly being conducted in the electronic world to disrupt services and or to steal peoples data (all of which is far more invasive than mere headline details the government wants) as well as to thwart attempts to trace them in their communications actions during those three phases, individual privacy is credited as the reason why such things are blocked, yet the inverse arguments are use to permit the plethora of cameras that create a veritable thicket of watching and snooping everywhere you go,
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
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Re: What Is plus Net Going to do, to protect Customers From Government Spying On Us.

Every day, Big Brother is watching us, we're all living a real-life Truman Show...
Anteaus
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Re: What Is plus Net Going to do, to protect Customers From Government Spying On Us.

It would certainly be useful to know how ISPs intend to collect this data - For example, will Internet domains visited be determined from DNS requests?  That seems likely, since on an https connection the browser's dialog is not visible, and on shared hosting the IP address being contacted doesn't identify one specific domain. So, the DNS request would, AFAICS, be the only reliable indication of  the domain being contacted.
If so, then using a non-UK DNS service would seem to solve that one without having to resort to proxies or other slow/expensive approaches. 
nanotm
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Re: What Is plus Net Going to do, to protect Customers From Government Spying On Us.

Quote from: twocvbloke
Every day, Big Brother is watching us, we're all living a real-life Truman Show...

ive said that many times, I would rather the liabore government had forced us all to get gps locator chips embedded in our bodies than have sodding cctv and audio recording gear fitted, granted carte blanche secret police style powers to council's and their "investigative contractors" to break into houses plant bugs run wire taps and conducts personal surveillance on us because we have the temerity to claim disability benefits, I wouldn't mind but the cheap knockoff import gear they uses messes with mobile phone reception, makes the phone line crackle and have an audible delay in dial tone starting stops calls from dropping properly and messes with the volume (7 totally different phones I bought and 19 times I had the same engineer out to check the line for faults before he finally told me what the problem was so I stopped wasting his time)  its ridiculous the level of non privacy we have to endure, its bad enough some never had a real job clip board touting desk jockey can pull me in for an interview under caution and have complete transcripts of every phone conversation for 9 months (mostly private medical or legal stuff) and yet when the plod want to investigate the matter they need to get an open court warrant issued and that is argued against by both representatives from the phone company, the law firm, the specialist hospital and of course the council......... now I can understand the objections of the law firm and the hospital but why should the other two be allowed to object (yes this happened before I was with PlusNet)
had that guy in t hat office had records of the numbers called/called from and the duration of calls that would of been fine but full transcripts of the conversation, full surveillance of my entire family (I'm the one who's disabled) and recordings of conversations between my wife and me when we were in bed, all of which were related to them confirming that I had a disability (because apparently the medical records that I signed a waiver for them  to get access to weren't enough proof) the plod ended up only being able to do the contractors and that was only because they placed cameras inside every room in my house and did so without permission of the building owners ..... I would of charged them with sex crimes against children myself there was zero need for the cameras in any rooms (stupid thing is i would of let them put cameras into the living room /kitchen/dining area so long as i got copies of the footage it would of supported my case for how bad my disability was at tribunal)
wanting to know what websites I visit by comparison is far less invasive as would having a chip implanted under my skin than being videoed every time I look out the windows, we need this new law sooner rather than later especially since it curtails such invasions undertaken by quassi official people flashing a badge should they get confronted/
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
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Re: What Is plus Net Going to do, to protect Customers From Government Spying On Us.

Quote from: Anteaus
- For example, will Internet domains visited be determined from DNS requests? 

The average user has little control over DNS requests other than the URL they type in at the start of browsing.  It would be very easy to construct "innocent" web pages that when accessed would via stealthy DNS requests accrue a mass of "evidence" on the ISP records that the user is visiting unsavoury sites. The user would not be aware of the damaging information and furthermore the ISP would not be allowed to tell him/her.
Now Zen, but a +Net residue.
VileReynard
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Re: What Is plus Net Going to do, to protect Customers From Government Spying On Us.

Most of these MP's have never heard of virtual domains.
They think that simply recording ip addresses would be sufficient.
If I really wanted to communicate in a secretive way to someone, I could simply use encrypted attachments in my email.
Or I could upload encrypted data representing a web site to cloud storage so that it could be downloaded for a browsing experience.
There is always Usenet too...
The link between individuals would be effectively broken and any evidence of inter-communication very difficult to discover.

nanotm
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Re: What Is plus Net Going to do, to protect Customers From Government Spying On Us.

Until ipv6 gets rolled out, at which point each device becomes individually traceable, the problem with tracing ip's now is your only able to get as far as the none isp router and then you can't tell if the person your interested in is even in the building or somewhere else connecting via ics through multiple locations......
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
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Re: What Is plus Net Going to do, to protect Customers From Government Spying On Us.

The Government is "putting aside" £175 Million/year to pay the ISPs to record our Internet access, which is approximately £7 per household/year. The ISPs reckon this is a gross underestimate of the cost of recording and storing such data. Guess who will fund those additional costs?
The ISPs should be open and honest about this and include a Spy Tax line in their invoices to cover the additional costs. We will of course have to pay VAT on the Spy Tax amount.
Now Zen, but a +Net residue.
VileReynard
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Re: What Is plus Net Going to do, to protect Customers From Government Spying On Us.

You mean the Spy Tax Additional Service (Internet) or STASI charge?

nanotm
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Re: What Is plus Net Going to do, to protect Customers From Government Spying On Us.

careful there you'll get moderated for suggesting someone follows in the footsteps of the 3rd Reich in the way they do something ....
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
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Re: What Is plus Net Going to do, to protect Customers From Government Spying On Us.

OOOps !....
nanotm, makes a mistake...        or is nanotm wrong.. ( despite his sig  ! ! )...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi
The Stasi was formed AFTER the third reich... in the GDR , or East German Republic....   Wink
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Re: What Is plus Net Going to do, to protect Customers From Government Spying On Us.

So how do they trace someone who goes into different cafe's or small pubs with no cctv and uses their Wifi to access inappropriate content ?