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Was Cameron right ?

Community Veteran
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Registered: 02-08-2007

Was Cameron right ?

Was Cameron right to veto the changes which the majority of other countries were trying to get through ?
Personally I think he was right as the euro is either doomed or will drag on for a year or so at most and the whole system will come apart and the less we have to do with it the better.
Clearly  Ed Miliband would have gone in the other direction and agreed to the changes and many liberals as well as his own party would have supported him.
If things come off the rails in the EC then Cameron will be in a very strong position when the next election is held, if however he is wrong his position will be weakened.
What do you think ?Huh
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Re: Was Cameron right ?

This was Sarkozy and the EU establishment attempting a power grab, note that Sarkozy is actually shorter than Napolean Bonaparte and had been previously annoyed by a DaveCam comment about his height. No love lost there.
Sadly I think the Euro is doomed too, the rescue attempts will see the Hedge Funds (and wealthy people) getting richer on money loaned by national european governments to the EU. I've spent at lot of time working with German, French and other continental managers and I fully understand where they are coming from, but this week's conference was a blatant attempt at getting a new EU treaty on the back of the currency crisis. It was refreshing to see a UK politician stand his ground. If it had been Blair/Brown/Mandleson on the podium we'd have been stitched up while they built their errm "reputation."
Now Zen, but a +Net residue.
Ellis
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Re: Was Cameron right ?

If politicians spoke the truth they would never get elected.
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Re: Was Cameron right ?

Quote from: gleneagles
Clearly Ed Miliband would have gone in the other direction and agreed to the changes and many liberals as well as his own party would have supported him.
What do you think ?Huh

I don't think that's clear at all, it was all staged to meet the needs of voters in the various countries involved.
Sarkozy didn't want an EC-wide treaty anyway, it all looked like a setup with an inevitable outcome.
Who represented Britain was probably irrelevant; no party wants to join the Euro at present - you're forgetting who decided to stay out. Wink
Sadly I think DC didn't play a very statesmanlike hand and has built up a legacy of future problems in our relationship with Europe; largely it appears by pandering to his own right-wing anti-EC backbenchers. Oh and forgetting he's in a coalition until too late.  Embarrassed
Community Veteran
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Registered: 12-08-2007

Re: Was Cameron right ?

I too think Cameron made the right decision.  A brave man IMO.  Milliband has been asked how he would have voted and so far we are still waiting for his answer. It's very easy to critisise from the sidelines.
I also feel the euro is doomed.  Nothing that has been done so far has addressed the issue that some countries will flounder if not bailed out.  Time is not on their side.  Fiddling whilst Rome burns comes to mind.
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Grafter
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Registered: 31-07-2007

Re: Was Cameron right ?

Yes. Cameron was very Right (in the sense that he is a Right politician)  but not right to exclude us from any further meetings of the Euro Committee.
At some stage in the very near future, we will certainly need to know what is going on and will have to sit back and accept whatever they have decided, whether our lives are adversely affected or not.
David_W
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Re: Was Cameron right ?

He was right and wrong at the same time, no small feat that!
If he had gone with it, the EU would have taken more power away from the UK which would have forced a referendum on our continued participation in the EU, the countries that have agreed still have to get it through their own parliaments and in some cases may indeed require a referendum.
By keeping us out of it, those that are "in" can make policy without going through the EU channels, they could bring in the effects they wanted from the meeting and the UK won't get a say in the matter as we're not part of the pact.
He has put us in a position of weakness, we're currently straddling the line between in and out which isn't a good place to be, it could end up that we have to make a choice between being fully in the EU to protect our interests, or out of the EU to protect our interests.  Some member states want us to leave because we didn't agree to giving over financial control to unelected officials, the next few months are going to be crucial in how the EU moves forward, though I think some American general wants to invade Smiley
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Re: Was Cameron right ?

We are a net contributor to the EU.  The estimate for 2010-11 is for the net contribution to be in the region of £6.5B.  I wonder what would happen if we didn't pay into the fund. We could end up with more money being retained by our Treasury for our own benefit.

David_W
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Re: Was Cameron right ?

The question there would be where would the treasury put the funds it didn't pay?  From 2007 to 2013 we'll have paid €103b but claimed back €46 which goes towards EU funded projects which our government itself probably wouldn't fund, probably couldn't afford to fund so whilst we would be financially better off as a country, as a people we would probably find ourselves worse off.  I'm in Cornwall which is classed as a really poor place so we get quite a bit of EU funding apparently, without that funding what would happen to Cornwall?
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Re: Was Cameron right ?

What sort of projects do you get EU funding on?
David_W
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Re: Was Cameron right ?

I think Hayle Harbour is getting EU funding, though when it'll start is anyones guess.
There is funding for businesses and such to create jobs, though the 2 examples on wiki isn't very good, they both closed.  There was funding from the EU for some employment place where they would give out money to help people get jobs, if you needed a pair of steel toe caps you could ask for it, or ask for a few hundred if you needed transport (a car/bike) to get to work, stuff like that.
Community Veteran
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Re: Was Cameron right ?

Right, but for the wrong reason
He was wrong because an EU policed budget cap would be a good thing for Britain and the tories. It' would mean no government could mess the economy up quite so badly ever again. Should have been done at the start of the EU all those years ago.
He was right because he has made a start to "Get powers back from Brussels".
As artmo says
Quote from: artmo
A brave man
Ellis
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Re: Was Cameron right ?

Quote from: David
I'm in Cornwall which is classed as a really poor place so we get quite a bit of EU funding apparently, without that funding what would happen to Cornwall?

It would still be there, part of the Duchy of Cornwall.
itsme
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Re: Was Cameron right ?

Don't let the name confuse you the Duchy estates are in 23 counties.
Community Veteran
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Re: Was Cameron right ?

I'm not a fan of Labour or Con'Em and despite any effects this may have on us I think its finally about time that the PM stood up to Europe and stood their ground.
For once, Cameron rightly or wrongly has done so and shown that the UK will not be pushed over.
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!