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Ugly eugenics resurrected?

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Hero
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Ugly eugenics resurrected?

One of Boris' advisers has made statements about racial IQs, and Boris has not chosen to criticize the statement or cesnsure the adviser.

To me, it seems unfortunate that beliefs like that are being promulgated once more, but maybe that's because horrific events of 75-,85 years ago are falling out of the nation's memory. I also ponder, if recent nationalism, included that  possibly expressed  in Brexit, has not increased negativity to other races.

No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
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Hero
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Re: Ugly eugenics resurrected?

From what I read these comments were made 6 years ago at the age of, I believe, 21. Should such a comment blight a career? Now who was it that said “Let he that is without sin cast the first stone”?

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Re: Ugly eugenics resurrected?

This is a terrific subject for causing offence to all and sundry so let me try to introduce some science to it.

If we measured IQ instead of SATS for children of all ages and ethnicities throughout the country we would have a significant data set with which to manage education.  If one group had consistently low IQs and another much higher we could look into the likely causes and tailor the system to generate improvement overall which must be for the common good..

It might also improve the cost/benefit of the system. Sending somebody to Oxbridge with an IQ of 90 because they are "poor" or "disadvantaged" at the expense of another with an IQ of 110 is surely wasteful.

An interesting subject which should not be swept under the carpet because Guadian readers are not prepared to counter Darwin's theories with rational debate.

 

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Re: Ugly eugenics resurrected?

Problem I have with IQ is who decides what intelligence is ? There are many types of intelligence in the world and in our hubris we are playing God in deciding which is the ' most important' type and are are constantly surprised at ' how intelligent' animals are,  well all I can say is animals can exist just fine without Tesco and have superpowers we can only dream of. IQ tests are set using certain parameters decided by humans who have been educated in a certain way, so no bias there then ! 

 

The problem with IQ tests is that people can be trained to pass them, which makes the just about useless IMHO..

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Hero
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Re: Ugly eugenics resurrected?

@TeeGee I was going to mention the source, then decided to ignore the thread as I try to keep out of political 'debate' which turns nasty. We all know that paper will print any anti-Conservative 'information it can - as is it's right, in a free society, but we should examine the 'information' and reach a considered decision.

Personally, I find the comments repugnant, but as @Baldrick1 points out, these comments were made 6 years ago, and we haven't got the context. I also dislike Dominic Cummings - he comes across as a crass bully - but maybe that is his public 'persona' and he is more of a gentleman - unlikely, I know, but politics is a dirty game, which ever side you're on.

John
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Re: Ugly eugenics resurrected?

Nothing wrong with eugenics, it's how it's applied that should worry us. Let's not disclaim it either as Darwin can easily be argued to have been it's midwife.

It has certainly not gone away, anything but in fact, neither can in be contained within any one political philosophy although many will try to do just that.

Do we not already practice a form of eugenics ourselves even subconsciously?

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Re: Ugly eugenics resurrected?


@Baldrick1 wrote:

From what I read these comments were made 6 years ago at the age of, I believe, 21. Should such a comment blight a career? Now who was it that said “Let he that is without sin cast the first stone”?


I have just read that he has resigned.

The PC clampdown on free speech and holding an opinion continues unabated.....

 

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Re: Ugly eugenics resurrected?

I'm not as smart as I thought, I had to look up eugenics....

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Re: Ugly eugenics resurrected?

@Champnet 

You obviously had the wrong parents. 😉

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Re: Ugly eugenics resurrected?

@Minivanman  Can't complain....

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Hero
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Re: Ugly eugenics resurrected?

@Baldrick1 al wrote

 From what I read these comments were made 6 years ago at the age of, I believe, 21.

 Should such a comment blight a career? Now who was it that said

“Let he that is without sin cast the first stone”?

Of course no one is without sin, but anyone can change

 If he says his youthful opinions are renounced, then that should be accepted

 

@wotsup wrote:

Problem I have with IQ is who decides what intelligence is ? There are many types of intelligence

 in the world and in our hubris we are playing God in deciding which is the ' most important'

type and are are constantly surprised at ' how intelligent' animals are,  well all I can say is animals can exist just fine without Tesco and have superpowers we can only dream of. IQ tests are set using certain parameters decided by humans who have been educated in a certain way, so no bias there then !

 

The problem with IQ tests is that people can be trained to pass them, which makes the just about useless IMHO..

 

Strangely, I agree with what you say @wotsup mostly.

 

@TeeGee  wrote

This is a terrific subject for causing offence to all and sundry so let me try to introduce some science to it.

If we measured IQ instead of SATS for children of all ages and ethnicities throughout the country we would have a significant data set with which to manage education.  If one group had consistently low IQs and another much higher we could look into thelikely causes and tailor the system to generate improvement overall which must be for the common good..

It might also improve the cost/benefit of the system. Sending somebody to Oxbridge with an IQ of 90 because they are "poor" or "disadvantaged" at the expense of another with an IQ of 110 is surely wasteful.

An interesting subject which should not be swept under the carpet because Guadian readers are not prepared to counter Darwin's theories with rational debate.

@TeeGee

I am certainly not a Guardian Reader, but it concerns me that because an article is posted in that paper, it is straightway devalued. There are other links in Google News.

TBH I am not convinced that Darwin is appropriate here. He dealt with species.

Dogs and cats can be all shapes, colours and sizes; can breed freely one with another.

Humans can too, but as we accept all dogs and cats are of their species, so we should with ourselves.

 

No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
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Hero
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Re: Ugly eugenics resurrected?

@TeeGee  I did not pick up from your post

Sending somebody to Oxbridge with an IQ of 90 because they are "poor" or "disadvantaged" at the expense of another with an IQ of 110 is surely wasteful.

Surely a child doing A Levels with intention to attens Uni would not have such a low IQ. I'd think the matter would amount to only slightly lower grades, or points needed to gain a place to repair the deficiency of education received and environmnet.

BTW, why lock on to Oxbridge?

Not even all the brightest see the two as the best, 

No one has to agree with my opinion, but in the time I have left a miracle would be nice.
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Re: Ugly eugenics resurrected?

Well I can honestly say this subject must be one of the biggest can of worms ever.

We are all eugenicists to a greater or lesser extending whether we like it or not and I cannot help but feel that this guy falling on his sword has the smell of political correctness about it.

Give it another fifty years years or so and we'll have a bland and boring society full of nodding asexual yes persons entirely controlled by Amazon.

How does 2084 sound.

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Re: Ugly eugenics resurrected?

@TeeGee wrote: 

I have just read that he has resigned.

The PC clampdown on free speech and holding an opinion continues unabated.....


@Minivanman wrote:

this guy falling on his sword has the smell of political correctness about it..


This has nothing to do with a ‘political correctness’ or freedom of speech. As Isabel Hardman says 

Free speech gives you the right to say idiotic things, it doesn’t give you the right to get employment in govt. Governing is all about choosing what you think and what you want to do. It is perfectly normal not to hire someone because you don’t agree with their views on eugenics.”

Even Andrew Neil thinks it has nothing to do with free speech - although he puts it a little more bluntly here.  

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Re: Ugly eugenics resurrected?

I was collecting my Granddaughter from infant school when 3 of her class-mates walked past.

One of them used a particular word referring to people of colour which amused her friends including one of colour.

I knew her and her Mum as they lived nearby.

I took careful note of the word and the time and date in case she went into politics later on in life.

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