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Truth, tollerence, moderation and censorship

Superuser
Superuser
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Truth, tollerence, moderation and censorship

Quote
This forum is open to all beliefs and religions.
Recently there have been a number of posts that have made this forum uncomfortable for some people to read and the number of reported posts backs this up, this should not be happening.
If you have particularly strong feelings against a certain group or groups of people then this is not the place to express those views. I will fully support the moderators in dealing with any discrimination, racism or xenophobia shown on these boards.

If these forums are open to ALL beliefs and religions then it needs to be accepted that from time to time matters which some disagree with are going to be voiced and voiced as strongly as those who would agree.
Why do we seek to negatively label those who speak a challenging "truth" rather than (if it can be) show that there is no truth in their argument?  Possibly because no matter how unpalatable we find it, the truth cannot be denied and we therefore seek to cover it up with political correctness and negative labelling.  I'm truly sorry to have to challenge Chris' pronouncement, but it seems to suggest that discussion in favour of such things will be tolerated, but discussion against those matters is to be forbidden.
What is wrong with "When in Rome do as the Romans do"?
If we cannot face the debates, lets be honest with ourselves and censor the subjects out of these forums completely for good.  If both sides of these issues cannot be equally argued, then let us agree to ban them from the forums altogether, but please do not just label people who choose to believe that some of the changes we are being forced to accept are all for the betterment of everyone.
Anyone care to list what we are allowed to discuss and are not allowed to discuss?  I suspect that "left wing" stuff will be OK and acceptable but anything possibly shaded blue or "right wing" will be forbidden.  1984 seems to have arrived, only 30 years later than George Orwell forecast... bring on the rats! Grin
21 REPLIES
198kHz
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Re: Truth, tollerence, moderation and censorship

To quote the old song
It ain't what you say it's the way that you say it
I've no objection to anything being discussed, as long as the language is temperate and no personal attacks are made.
I think the existing forum rules are adequate to cover the above - though I believe of late they might possibly not have been enforced enough in a small minority of cases.
Not young enough to know everything
Superuser
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Re: Truth, tollerence, moderation and censorship

Quote from: Foresee
It ain't what you say it's the way that you say it

If only that were the case.  There are now so many subjects were one is now (under the threat of prosecution) not allowed to say anything which hints at a different point of view, no matter how nicely it is said.  To articulate the view at best gets the "negative" label rather than an attempt to show how the statement holds no truth.
Community Veteran
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Re: Truth, tollerence, moderation and censorship

Problem is things and views change sometimes not for the better.
I used to enjoy watching "The Black & White Minstrels" and I still like watching "It Ain't Half Hot Mum".
Now both would be regarded as racist to varying degrees but at the time they were shown I don't think they were.
They were just innocent fun.
PitchBlack
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Re: Truth, tollerence, moderation and censorship

Two great shows, Love thy neighbour and mind your language, s'oright.
Innocent shows which couldn't be shown today.

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Re: Truth, tollerence, moderation and censorship

What needs to be remembered, is, that, it does not matter what religion or political party you support, you can join in this forum, and be welcome.......
What has happened, is that certain members, have seen fit, to be "circumspect" , to put it lightly, in the wording of their posts, in the way of a negative approach to the subjects of religion, ( parts thereof, or, as a whole) and similarly with politics, with the intent of causing unrest and disruption to the normal sway of the forum conversations. 
They have been so clever, in the way of being circumspect that they, themselves, have not actually been forthright in their postings, so that they can be seen as " blameless "...
Posting inflamatory comments, (however cleverly disguised)  from outside sources, just to gain a bit of notoriety, and to increase their self importance, does nothing but the opposite....
Inflamatory comments.  ( from whatever source ), regarding other people`s religion or politics, is not the same as "all shades of religion and politics are welcome on this forum"....
Community Veteran
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Re: Truth, tollerence, moderation and censorship

Well put shutter! Smiley
Geoff,
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Re: Truth, tollerence, moderation and censorship

Providing we get a good mixture of topics in chit chat and no one goes on some personal crusade once they have made their point then I don't have a problem with that, unfortunately things can get a bit heated and it's worth remembering that whatever source is correctly quoted it does not mean the source is correct or is based on too small a sample.
One very good example of this was about satins that appeared in the Lancet only for it to be later discredited.
It pays to look carefully at who is paying for published research, or the reasons why that research is being done such as part of a degree course.
Things have toned down a bit in chit chat and I think that's a good thing but equally as others have pointed out we need to be careful on restricting what people say.
I Have no personal interest in Politics or religion but I am interested to know why those who do have an interest base their belief on, unfortunately such questions may come across as a challenge to prove what you believe or why A is better than B thus leading to personal criticism.  
gtowen
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Re: Truth, tollerence, moderation and censorship

I think the main problem is the restriction on forum sections, unfortunately "Chit Chat" as a forum section is open to any and all abuse and is not limited to this forum. Other forums on other websites suffer from the same.
Maybe we should have a "Politics",  "Religion" and "Football" section for those who wish to chat on those subjects......... and yes I was merchant navy trained where those subjects were banned from the bar Smiley
An open discussion on all three subjects is welcome, despite they cause heated arguments, but title threads should reflect this. Too many times I've clicked on an "interesting" title to find it's someones personal rant or political view, which tbh I'm not interested in. But having clicked on the link and waded through the posts I'm annoyed that the OP was not forthcoming on the reasons for the post.
If other forum sections are not feasible, maybe an inclusion in thread title, such as [Politics] blah blah, or [Religion] blah blah would suffice........... thus giving people the choice of clicking on the link or running away very fast Smiley
Superuser
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Re: Truth, tollerence, moderation and censorship

Quote from: NedLudd
Well put shutter! Smiley

+1 - I think that is a very fair way of putting it.
Superuser
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Re: Truth, tollerence, moderation and censorship

Quote from: gleneagles
I Have no personal interest in Politics or religion but I am interested to know why those who do have an interest base their belief on, unfortunately such questions may come across as a challenge to prove what you believe or why A is better than B thus leading to personal criticism.  

However challenging such questioning is, it is far more positive that simply labelling the person and using the labelling to dismiss, quell or even quash the debate.  This has to be at the heart of a mature society that it can 'host' robust discussion with labelling.
Superuser
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Re: Truth, tollerence, moderation and censorship

Quote from: gtowen
and yes I was merchant navy trained where those subjects were banned from the bar Smiley

I would suggest that was more in favour of avoiding personal conflicts which could have been obstacles in time of action when complete and unified team work with no personal grievances was essential to the welfare of the vessel.  Avoid grounds for falling out at all costs in confined environments!
I'd welcome a complete ban on football discussions - in our time in the pub trade I saw more fights (or near fights) over football team arguments than every other reason for falling out added together.  Then people wondered why we refused to screen football on the premises.  Crazy
Community Veteran
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Re: Truth, tollerence, moderation and censorship

Quote from: gtowen
Maybe we should have a "Politics",  "Religion" and "Football" section

That would be a full time job for a couple of moderators.
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Re: Truth, tollerence, moderation and censorship

I think the biggest problem is where to draw the line and the members who will always see how far over the line they can push before they get "spoken to".
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Re: Truth, tollerence, moderation and censorship

Without beating around the bush...we all know who is perceived to be the main protagonist.  and though I may not agree with his views sometimes- we have had a few fall outs- I still respect the fact that everyone has their right to have a say. However, this is becoming a witch-hunt - and I for one want no part of it. This is borders on cyber-bullying.
As an illustration, someone posted a thread...Someone's been busy !!.( I'm not sure how to post a link to it, and really can't be bothered)  Which was replied to by the 'target' - in a good humoured way.  Then the thread was locked - with  as I see it)  the inference of 'Here we go again'...
I see no reason why the tread was locked, except either paranoia or prejudice.
I used to enjoy the banter, the arguments too.  Sometimes I had my point of view turned around by other peoples arguments.  But now we have arbitrary censorship, which looks to me like it was only because this person responded - and this is , I feel, wrong.
I expect that people will shake their heads and tut-tut me, but If I see an injustice I will speak out.
Everyone has  a right to have an opinion.
Everyone has a right to express an opinion.
And I know, opinions have to be expressed politely, but in a discussion forum things can and will get heated on some topics.  Two minutes later the same people will be laughing and sharing anecdotes about something quite trivial.
I'm going to take a break, and make my sun lounger.  I may be back or I may not.