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Time To Change The Goal Posts

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Re: Time To Change The Goal Posts

Quote from: Oddball
*Tsk *Tsk These poor deprived people need to get a grip on their finances and manage money better!
Iain Duncan Smith's expenses credit card is suspended after he runs up £1,000 debt to taxpayer

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Re: Time To Change The Goal Posts

the best people to do something about poverty are those who understand about wealth creation. those who create jobs and employ people. Statistically there will always be people in the lower 40% of income so all we can do is increase the nations wealth. the aid budget should be targeted at poverty in the third world  Smiley 
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Re: Time To Change The Goal Posts

For those of you old enough to remember was poverty worse in the 1950's than it is today ?
I recall most people I knew had to work hard just to keep a roof over their heads and food in their stomach, the fear of having no money resulted in people being careful how they spent their money as there was little in the way of financial assistance from the state.
Ask most elderly people who were young at the time what they got for christmas and compare that to what the average child gets now ?
Of course many children suffer today but it's the parent(s) who have access to what money is available and how it's spent, perhaps there is too much thinking along the lines of we have a right to have sky tv, mobile phone, holiday abroad etc ?
The group who get my sympathy are the disabled and their carers who cannot alter their circumstances along with young children who are given a poor education and little or no support from parent(s) who put their needs before their childs needs.
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Re: Time To Change The Goal Posts

@gleneagles, you make some good points. When I grew up many families had to work hard to put a meal on the table every day for the family. These days it's down to expensive takeaways and things like Sky TV, annual holidays, latest designer clothes etc are seen as essentials.
Steve
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Re: Time To Change The Goal Posts

Quote
Alison Garnham, CPAG chief executive, said: “Today’s statement isn’t about strengthening efforts to end child poverty but about burying the failure of the Government’s child poverty approach.”

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Javed Khan, chief executive of Barnardos, said: “With every day that passes more families tell Barnardo’s they face debt, hunger and homelessness because low wages and benefits changes have left them unable to pay for the basics.”

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Peter Grigg, director of external affairs at The Children’s Society, added: “This will condemn increasing numbers of children to live below the breadline, which is a national disgrace.”

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Alex Rowley, deputy leader candidate for Scottish Labour, said: “The announcement by Iain Duncan Smith is a shocking and cynical attempt by the Tory Government to cover up the fact that Tory austerity is driving more children into absolute poverty across the UK. It is a complete fantasy to suggest that poverty can be measured with no reference to income and sadly his announcement is in my view an indication of the level of cuts to come for low-earning families.”

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At a time when child poverty across the UK is on the rise this is an absolutely disgraceful dereliction of responsibility ... Years of Westminster austerity have harmed the poorest ten per cent of households harder than anyone – hitting families with children hard. Scrapping the target to end child poverty by 2020 would only highlight the complete lack of Tory will to do anything to reverse this damage.”


If life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
bustermissy1961
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Re: Time To Change The Goal Posts

Quote from: artmo
Quote from: chrcoluk
I see it as poor you might be in say the botto 30% of earners.  (figure picked out of air), silar to how they define poverty.
Poverty is what it is, if you struggle to get the basics.
Some people think of africa villages as poverty, but poverty needs to be relative to the country and expectations of modern living.

Ridiculous comment. Why not pick 40% or 50% or even 100% then everyone can be in poverty.

Hark at Mr Comfortably well off. What a door handle.
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Re: Time To Change The Goal Posts

http://www.cityam.com/219157/against-grain-child-poverty-thankfully-not-rising-archaic-definition-ne...
If we're going to get into quotes what about this one? Tongue
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Steve
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Re: Time To Change The Goal Posts

Quote from: gleneagles
For those of you old enough to remember was poverty worse in the 1950's than it is today ?
I recall most people I knew had to work hard just to keep a roof over their heads and food in their stomach, the fear of having no money resulted in people being careful how they spent their money as there was little in the way of financial assistance from the state.
Ask most elderly people who were young at the time what they got for christmas and compare that to what the average child gets now ?
Poverty In the UK post war era... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_Kingdom#Poverty_in_the_postwar_era
If life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
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Re: Time To Change The Goal Posts

Quote from: bustermissy1961
Quote from: artmo

Ridiculous comment. Why not pick 40% or 50% or even 100% then everyone can be in poverty.

Hark at Mr Comfortably well off. What a door handle.

Woops , looks like someone has her nickers in a twist.
FYI if I am comfortably well off it's because I've always worked through my life and made provision for my retirement. Can you say tghe same Undecided
VileReynard
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Re: Time To Change The Goal Posts

In the 1950's, as a child, I lived in a comfortable council house - not a flat.
Rents were reasonable.
This was in the days when councils actually built council houses.
Not much money around - but there was always enough to get by.

"In The Beginning Was The Word, And The Word Was Aardvark."

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Re: Time To Change The Goal Posts

Quote from: artmo
@gleneagles, you make some good points. When I grew up many families had to work hard to put a meal on the table every day for the family. These days it's down to expensive takeaways and things like Sky TV, annual holidays, latest designer clothes etc are seen as essentials.

No sky TV here.. takeaways are a very rare treat.. i've been wearing the same worn out clothes for the last 5 or so years, no credit on my phone since 2010 (how they've not disconnected it is beyond me). Am I poor? That depends on how you think of poverty and that is the issue. I'm rich compared to someone in the middle of africa living in a mud hut.. poor compared to most folk in this country.
Gleneagles does make good points though, I remember back in the 80s life was a struggle for us to get by - the threat of being evicted and bailiffs was quite common throughout my childhood. Not a good time.
These days i have more material things - posessions as such but is that because we have more money floating around OR that things have just become a lot cheaper? - I personally think it's the latter.  Housing is more expensive along with bills but other things seem to have come down in price.
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Re: Time To Change The Goal Posts

If I am interpreting the chart shown in the Link given by M Steve correctly then there was far more poverty in the 1950 era than there is today and I suspect the further you go back the higher the number of people living in poverty,
Percentage of population in poverty Relative poverty National assistance scale Supplementary benefits scale
Year Households Individuals Households Individuals Households Individuals
1953/54 6.5% 4.8% 6.5% 4.8% 22.5% 21.0%
1963 6.8% 5.5% 2.5% 1.4% 10.5% 9.4%
1967 5.8% 5.3% 0.9% 0.9% 6.0% 5.5%
1971 4.9% 4.2% 0.5% 0.5% 4.9% 4.2%
1973 4.3% 3.0% 0.3% 0.2% 3.5% 2.3%
No level of poverty is acceptable but the figure can never be zero, one major problem is that some people will simply not take responsibility for their lives and the more that is done for them the more they expect. Sadly this has been encouraged by governments in the past and the current reaction to proposed changes is only to be expected.
As previously stated many people do need help, Physically and mentally disabled people and their carers and children with feckless parent(s) but a lot of others need a good kick up the backside.
VileReynard
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Re: Time To Change The Goal Posts

A rather Victorian attitude.
Quote
Feckless parents!

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Re: Time To Change The Goal Posts

@7up,
Oddly enough I do not have Sky TV as there is adequate stuff on the free channels, of course I have seen game of thrones and a few other boxed sets, simply because I have gone to the local Library and paid £2 to hire them for the week.
Like you I have very few takeaway meals simply because we do not consider them healthy and in many cases provides you with your full calorie intake for the day.
Having clothes for 5 years is interesting, some of my stuff is 12 to 15 years old or more, why ? simply because clothes have never interested me I dress how I like, I would rather spend £2 on a tee shirt from Primark than £50 on a tee shirt with some football logo on it although I do accept that being a lot younger than me clothes are important to you.
I am aware that life is difficult if you have insufficient money coming in but I mention the above as my past was so poor I was reluctant to spend money when my income increased so sure I could now afford sky, buy new clothes and do a lot of other things but always at the back of my mind is the thought I never want to ever find myself in the same financial position I was in for most of my earlier years, by earlier years I mean my late 40's.
Smiley
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Re: Time To Change The Goal Posts

Quote from: vilefoxdemonofdoom
A rather Victorian attitude.
Quote
Feckless parents!

I Would have used other words but they would simply get censored.
Smiley