cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

They're finally getting the idea folks!

Community Veteran
Posts: 13,929
Thanks: 515
Fixes: 8
Registered: 01-08-2007

They're finally getting the idea folks!

Finally the government are starting to realise that their unwanted 'scrap' is often still something that the nation adores! Today it's the famous HMS Illustrious and about time! Normally our battle ships and planes get cut up and turned into dog food tins and microwaves but Illustrious is looking to turn around these misfortunes. Finally it seems that Her Majestys useless idiots (sorry, MPs) are finally realising that there is more life to these that makes them worth the taxpayers initial outlay!
From everyones favourite, the Daily Mail:

I think this is brilliant. It's about time the government started to appreciate what we really have and how much potential these vessels still have after they've finished with them. Well done to whoever put this idea forward, it's definitely a step in the right direction!
What I don't get though is this:
Quote
The controversial decision will leave Britain without a single aircraft carrier until two new £6 billion vessels enter service in 2020.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2539398/Royal-Navy-aircraft-carrier-HMS-Illustrious-axed-MoD...
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

I thought we still had HMS Ocean?
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
14 REPLIES
Community Veteran
Posts: 16,863
Thanks: 1,141
Fixes: 13
Registered: 06-11-2007

Re: They're finally getting the idea folks!

HMS Ocean, is not "strictly" an aircraft carrier ... ( i.e fixed wing aircraft, using the flight deck )... she is an Amphibious Support Vessel... the flight deck is for Helicopter operations.
from Wikipedia....
Quote

HMS Ocean of the Royal Navy is an amphibious assault ship (or landing platform helicopter) and is the sole member of her class.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Apache_Helicopter_Takes_off_from_HMS_Ocean_During_Operation_Ellamy...
Community Veteran
Posts: 13,929
Thanks: 515
Fixes: 8
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: They're finally getting the idea folks!

Yet the Invincible class were only helicopter carriers.. Maggie put a few Harriers on them to defend the Falklands as thats all she could muster up.
Why did Ocean not get this treatment too?
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
nanotm
Pro
Posts: 5,674
Thanks: 109
Fixes: 1
Registered: 11-02-2013

Re: They're finally getting the idea folks!

because the harriers were decommissioned .......
the new variant might come into service in 5 years time but wont be able to do the same VTOL as its too fuel intensive
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Community Veteran
Posts: 16,863
Thanks: 1,141
Fixes: 13
Registered: 06-11-2007

Re: They're finally getting the idea folks!

@ 7up.... see my reply number one.... the last 7 words (in the quote) give a clue..... ! 
Community Veteran
Posts: 13,929
Thanks: 515
Fixes: 8
Registered: 01-08-2007

Re: They're finally getting the idea folks!

Yeah but moons ago before it was put into service (and i'm talking pre 2000) I'm sure Ocean was meant to also carry harriers?
Oh well I seem to have screwed up memories of what this ship was for / put into service lol
Still, good news, one of this trio is saved!
I need a new signature... i'm bored of the old one!
nanotm
Pro
Posts: 5,674
Thanks: 109
Fixes: 1
Registered: 11-02-2013

Re: They're finally getting the idea folks!

not really, if someone made a new car like that they would go to prison for a decade or more, ocean might look good but its a cut n shut so its always having problems .....
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you
Community Veteran
Posts: 16,863
Thanks: 1,141
Fixes: 13
Registered: 06-11-2007

Re: They're finally getting the idea folks!

Quote from: 7up
Yet the Invincible class were only helicopter carriers.. Maggie put a few Harriers on them to defend the Falklands as thats all she could muster up.
Why did Ocean not get this treatment too?

From Wikipedia ....
Quote

Prior to their retirement, Ocean could transport up to 15 fixed wing Harrier[12] aircraft of Joint Force Harrier in the ferry role, but was unable to operate as a fixed wing aircraft carrier due to her lack of the 'ski jump' that is needed to launch a fully loaded Harrier.
myredhotcar
Grafter
Posts: 457
Registered: 06-11-2013

Re: They're finally getting the idea folks!

@ Shutter: If you don't  mind me asking did you ever serve on HMS Ark Royal (R09) or Hermes (R12)?
Community Veteran
Posts: 16,863
Thanks: 1,141
Fixes: 13
Registered: 06-11-2007

Re: They're finally getting the idea folks!

Yes, when I served on R06 GKYG
myredhotcar
Grafter
Posts: 457
Registered: 06-11-2013

Re: They're finally getting the idea folks!

My grandfathers on both sides of the family were naval; I didn't know my dad's father was naval until his funeral when it turned out he was at Korea on (I believe) Black Swan (L57) as a gunner with an "itchy trigger finger". I don't know much else of his naval history but my mother's father served from 1952-1975, when he was pensioned. During the 90's he worked at Hamworthy in some capacity; he took me there as a child and he worked in what looked like a country house.
He was far more forthright about his naval history and told me about the ships he had served on, mentioning Ark Royal and Hermes a lot. I have copies of his records and it seems he worked on a lot of ships but I cannot read all of the entries, including Raleigh, Drake, Devonshire Ark royal, Alaunia, Sultan, Victory, Forth, Orion,  Lion, and Bellerophon. I believe he was involved in NBC training toward the end of his career, and at the very beginning he did the Porton Down thing in return for leave.
It seems most of the ships he served on are no longer being used which is sad.
One other thing: he always maintained to me that he never learned to swim. Would this have been possible in the navy or was it another of his tall tales like his 'shark bite' and 'gunshot wound'?
WTF
Grafter
Posts: 673
Thanks: 1
Registered: 14-09-2012

Re: They're finally getting the idea folks!

Quote from: nanotm
because the harriers were decommissioned

.. and sold for pennies to the US Marines to use for spare parts .. because the Marines - unlike the UK DoD - didn't actually believe the F35 was going to get VTOL working any time soon.
And surprise, surprise: the Marines were correct
Quote from: nanotm
the new variant might come into service in 5 years time but wont be able to do the same VTOL as its too fuel intensive

Partly that, but more that, even in the unlikely event that the (grossly overpriced) F35C managed to meet the lastest update/downgrade to its spec, it still wouldn't generate enough lift to take off vertically with a full weapons load
Oh .. and there's the minor issue that the jets were burning through carrier decks
Unfortunately, the backup plan of equiping the new 'carriers' with cables to launch aircraft (as in the old days) is also dependent on US developments which are also not going well.  At the moment, it looks horribly like the UK is going to end up with some very large, very expensive, rotor carriers.
But at least Gordon Brown's constituency got a couple of nice big ship building contracts ..
WTF
Grafter
Posts: 673
Thanks: 1
Registered: 14-09-2012

Re: They're finally getting the idea folks!

Oops
WTF
Grafter
Posts: 673
Thanks: 1
Registered: 14-09-2012

Re: They're finally getting the idea folks!

Just found this story about the problems the F35A (the 'simple' version of the F35C our carriers are supposedly going to carry) has been having:
http://www.pogo.org/blog/2013/03/20130306-air-forces-f-35a-not-ready-for-combat.html
The list is loooooong and sometimes rather startling - inability to use real or even simulated weaponry; unable to dive at 1/10th the rate an F16 climbs; average 4 hours between critical failures etc etc.
It also seems there's growing pressure in the US to cancel what has become the most expensive weapons project in history:
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/pat-garofalo/2014/01/23/the-f-35-fighter-boondoggle-isnt-even-cr...
You have to wonder what the RN is going to do with their two new ships if that happens .. Given they've already ruled out using cables
nanotm
Pro
Posts: 5,674
Thanks: 109
Fixes: 1
Registered: 11-02-2013

Re: They're finally getting the idea folks!

there was some talk of them being dual purpose from the get go, that the Eurofighter/bomber would be able to use the carriers as a staging post (although they wouldn't be able to get stored on there for voyages due to the size of the lifts and hangers ....) of course they could always do what they did to a bunch of frigates in the past and bolt a hanger of the correct size for the eurojets onto the side of the deck........ whatever they end up with it will be largely rotary based, iirc the yanks are talking about uprating the osprey s4eries of planes to have jet thrusters for straight flight and rotors for T.O.L. only, but who knows (probably cost less than the last design mistake they rectified on the F35C which was reportedly a 5 billion dollar change of parts)
to be honest the entire UKAF is in a shambles though thanks to the labour parties defence review strategy, something they orchestrated in conjunction with the EUP under the misapprehension that an EU DEF FOR would be up and running with a standing force component of 250k by mid 2014/early 2015 (but most of the other nations whilst initially keen on such a force soon started bickering over their contribution levels) of course the current government's hands are tied as part of the 10 year evolving force requirements, then again what else should we expect when we had an unelected leader who's sole thought on defence is a penny on defence is a penny wasted ......
just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you